Why is it âcame back from the deadâ and not âcame back from the deathâ?
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Many times now, I've heard native English speakers (from the USA and Canada) say "he came back from the dead" instead of "from the death" when they mean resurrection.
Dead is not a noun, so I don't see why the sentence is correct.
Evidently dead can be a noun that means dead people but that isn't the case here.
Any reason?
edit: I didn't expect that this would spark so much interest; it just came up again in an online video I was watching.
word-choice word-usage nouns adjectives religion
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Many times now, I've heard native English speakers (from the USA and Canada) say "he came back from the dead" instead of "from the death" when they mean resurrection.
Dead is not a noun, so I don't see why the sentence is correct.
Evidently dead can be a noun that means dead people but that isn't the case here.
Any reason?
edit: I didn't expect that this would spark so much interest; it just came up again in an online video I was watching.
word-choice word-usage nouns adjectives religion
20
"the dead" = all people who are dead. It is a noun. You can see it often in zombie stories as the phrase "the dead are rising from their graves" to mean literally mean that the dead become undead and crawl out of their graves.
â Polygnome
2 days ago
17
"he came back from the dead" = "he came back from (among all) the dead (persons)" = "he came back from (where all) the dead ((supposedly) are)" HTH. Why complicate. BTW, the dead is a noun phrase.
â Kris
2 days ago
@Kris I'm sorry you are mistaken and it's a mistake that I also made initially. The dictionary references, I cited, prove this. "I have come back from the dead" means "I have come back to life" Now where you die may be in the place where the dead reside but that is different. Do you see how "the dead" in the previous sentence has a different meaning? This is not the case of the definite article being used with an adjective to make a category, e.g. "the sick", "the rich", "the idle", "the Swiss" etc. In the OP's example, it is about death.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
9
@MariLouA Oh come on, that's empty argumentation. Kris is right: "The dead" is a noun category after all (read the accepted answer). It harks back to a time when most people thought the dead went somewhere after they died, and might come back to haunt them later. However, since you can't literally come back to life, "the dead" almost always used figuratively.
â Spencer
2 days ago
@Spencer Yes, I agree that "The dead" is a category, it means all the people who have died (all the dead people). If someone gives money to "the sick", it means they donate money to sick people. We say "the rich get richer" which means rich people are getting richer. But you don't "rise from all the dead people", you don't "come back from (all) the dead people." Psychics claim they can speak to the dead i.e. (people who have deceased) The phrase cited by the OP is "come back from the dead" it's a VERBAL phrase which means to resurrect, to come back to life.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
 |Â
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up vote
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up vote
26
down vote
favorite
Many times now, I've heard native English speakers (from the USA and Canada) say "he came back from the dead" instead of "from the death" when they mean resurrection.
Dead is not a noun, so I don't see why the sentence is correct.
Evidently dead can be a noun that means dead people but that isn't the case here.
Any reason?
edit: I didn't expect that this would spark so much interest; it just came up again in an online video I was watching.
word-choice word-usage nouns adjectives religion
Many times now, I've heard native English speakers (from the USA and Canada) say "he came back from the dead" instead of "from the death" when they mean resurrection.
Dead is not a noun, so I don't see why the sentence is correct.
Evidently dead can be a noun that means dead people but that isn't the case here.
Any reason?
edit: I didn't expect that this would spark so much interest; it just came up again in an online video I was watching.
word-choice word-usage nouns adjectives religion
edited 4 hours ago
asked 2 days ago
Alexis_FR_JP
25037
25037
20
"the dead" = all people who are dead. It is a noun. You can see it often in zombie stories as the phrase "the dead are rising from their graves" to mean literally mean that the dead become undead and crawl out of their graves.
â Polygnome
2 days ago
17
"he came back from the dead" = "he came back from (among all) the dead (persons)" = "he came back from (where all) the dead ((supposedly) are)" HTH. Why complicate. BTW, the dead is a noun phrase.
â Kris
2 days ago
@Kris I'm sorry you are mistaken and it's a mistake that I also made initially. The dictionary references, I cited, prove this. "I have come back from the dead" means "I have come back to life" Now where you die may be in the place where the dead reside but that is different. Do you see how "the dead" in the previous sentence has a different meaning? This is not the case of the definite article being used with an adjective to make a category, e.g. "the sick", "the rich", "the idle", "the Swiss" etc. In the OP's example, it is about death.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
9
@MariLouA Oh come on, that's empty argumentation. Kris is right: "The dead" is a noun category after all (read the accepted answer). It harks back to a time when most people thought the dead went somewhere after they died, and might come back to haunt them later. However, since you can't literally come back to life, "the dead" almost always used figuratively.
â Spencer
2 days ago
@Spencer Yes, I agree that "The dead" is a category, it means all the people who have died (all the dead people). If someone gives money to "the sick", it means they donate money to sick people. We say "the rich get richer" which means rich people are getting richer. But you don't "rise from all the dead people", you don't "come back from (all) the dead people." Psychics claim they can speak to the dead i.e. (people who have deceased) The phrase cited by the OP is "come back from the dead" it's a VERBAL phrase which means to resurrect, to come back to life.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
20
"the dead" = all people who are dead. It is a noun. You can see it often in zombie stories as the phrase "the dead are rising from their graves" to mean literally mean that the dead become undead and crawl out of their graves.
â Polygnome
2 days ago
17
"he came back from the dead" = "he came back from (among all) the dead (persons)" = "he came back from (where all) the dead ((supposedly) are)" HTH. Why complicate. BTW, the dead is a noun phrase.
â Kris
2 days ago
@Kris I'm sorry you are mistaken and it's a mistake that I also made initially. The dictionary references, I cited, prove this. "I have come back from the dead" means "I have come back to life" Now where you die may be in the place where the dead reside but that is different. Do you see how "the dead" in the previous sentence has a different meaning? This is not the case of the definite article being used with an adjective to make a category, e.g. "the sick", "the rich", "the idle", "the Swiss" etc. In the OP's example, it is about death.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
9
@MariLouA Oh come on, that's empty argumentation. Kris is right: "The dead" is a noun category after all (read the accepted answer). It harks back to a time when most people thought the dead went somewhere after they died, and might come back to haunt them later. However, since you can't literally come back to life, "the dead" almost always used figuratively.
â Spencer
2 days ago
@Spencer Yes, I agree that "The dead" is a category, it means all the people who have died (all the dead people). If someone gives money to "the sick", it means they donate money to sick people. We say "the rich get richer" which means rich people are getting richer. But you don't "rise from all the dead people", you don't "come back from (all) the dead people." Psychics claim they can speak to the dead i.e. (people who have deceased) The phrase cited by the OP is "come back from the dead" it's a VERBAL phrase which means to resurrect, to come back to life.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
20
20
"the dead" = all people who are dead. It is a noun. You can see it often in zombie stories as the phrase "the dead are rising from their graves" to mean literally mean that the dead become undead and crawl out of their graves.
â Polygnome
2 days ago
"the dead" = all people who are dead. It is a noun. You can see it often in zombie stories as the phrase "the dead are rising from their graves" to mean literally mean that the dead become undead and crawl out of their graves.
â Polygnome
2 days ago
17
17
"he came back from the dead" = "he came back from (among all) the dead (persons)" = "he came back from (where all) the dead ((supposedly) are)" HTH. Why complicate. BTW, the dead is a noun phrase.
â Kris
2 days ago
"he came back from the dead" = "he came back from (among all) the dead (persons)" = "he came back from (where all) the dead ((supposedly) are)" HTH. Why complicate. BTW, the dead is a noun phrase.
â Kris
2 days ago
@Kris I'm sorry you are mistaken and it's a mistake that I also made initially. The dictionary references, I cited, prove this. "I have come back from the dead" means "I have come back to life" Now where you die may be in the place where the dead reside but that is different. Do you see how "the dead" in the previous sentence has a different meaning? This is not the case of the definite article being used with an adjective to make a category, e.g. "the sick", "the rich", "the idle", "the Swiss" etc. In the OP's example, it is about death.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
@Kris I'm sorry you are mistaken and it's a mistake that I also made initially. The dictionary references, I cited, prove this. "I have come back from the dead" means "I have come back to life" Now where you die may be in the place where the dead reside but that is different. Do you see how "the dead" in the previous sentence has a different meaning? This is not the case of the definite article being used with an adjective to make a category, e.g. "the sick", "the rich", "the idle", "the Swiss" etc. In the OP's example, it is about death.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
9
9
@MariLouA Oh come on, that's empty argumentation. Kris is right: "The dead" is a noun category after all (read the accepted answer). It harks back to a time when most people thought the dead went somewhere after they died, and might come back to haunt them later. However, since you can't literally come back to life, "the dead" almost always used figuratively.
â Spencer
2 days ago
@MariLouA Oh come on, that's empty argumentation. Kris is right: "The dead" is a noun category after all (read the accepted answer). It harks back to a time when most people thought the dead went somewhere after they died, and might come back to haunt them later. However, since you can't literally come back to life, "the dead" almost always used figuratively.
â Spencer
2 days ago
@Spencer Yes, I agree that "The dead" is a category, it means all the people who have died (all the dead people). If someone gives money to "the sick", it means they donate money to sick people. We say "the rich get richer" which means rich people are getting richer. But you don't "rise from all the dead people", you don't "come back from (all) the dead people." Psychics claim they can speak to the dead i.e. (people who have deceased) The phrase cited by the OP is "come back from the dead" it's a VERBAL phrase which means to resurrect, to come back to life.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
@Spencer Yes, I agree that "The dead" is a category, it means all the people who have died (all the dead people). If someone gives money to "the sick", it means they donate money to sick people. We say "the rich get richer" which means rich people are getting richer. But you don't "rise from all the dead people", you don't "come back from (all) the dead people." Psychics claim they can speak to the dead i.e. (people who have deceased) The phrase cited by the OP is "come back from the dead" it's a VERBAL phrase which means to resurrect, to come back to life.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
 |Â
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For one thing, you cannot say âÂÂcame back from the deathâÂÂ: death takes no article here. Death works as an abstract condition not a particular instance of one, much like life or hope or joy or sadness or despair. You would not lose the hope; you would just lose hope in general. You would not return from the sadness â unless it were the sadness that befell you upon learning the hour of your death and subsequent loss of hope leading to despair. It doesn't normally get to be a particular instance of a death, let alone of the death. English uses the zero article in many places, and that part is much too big a topic for this question.
But for the main thing, here dead is a noun, usually a plural one.
Tennyson wrote:
Nor canst thou show the dead are dead.
Note please the plural concord with the verb are.
But the phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ is special. It arose from translating the New Testament. The OED says of it:
B. n.
a. singular. One who is dead, a dead person. Formerly with a, and with possessive dead's (dedes, dedis).
b. plural the dead.
c. from the dead [originally translating Latin a mortuis, Greek á¼Âú ýõúÃÂῶý, á¼ÂÃÂὸ ÃÂῶý ýõúÃÂῶý in the New Testament.] : from among those that are dead; hence nearly = from death.
Even Old English did this. The Lindisfarne Gospels written back around 950 had John 2:22 begin with this is Old English:
Miððy uutudlice ariseð from deadum,
Which in the Early Modern English of the KJV ran:
When therefore he was risen from the dead,
And in the Vulgate ran like this in Latin:
Cum ergo resurrexisset a mortuis,
So this phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ has been used that way ever since. ItâÂÂs been in English since before you could even recognize English as English: âÂÂariseth from deadumâ looks almost silly to us these days.
While adjectives can be nominalized and used as a singular to mean the part with that property (like in the dead of night) or in the plural meaning people who have that property (like in the good, the bad, and the ugly; or judging the quick and the dead; or saying that the poor will be with you always), when you see something that looks like itâÂÂs acting like a noun, it probably is as good as âÂÂa real oneâ for nominal purposes like these.
23
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
15
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
6
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
7
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
 |Â
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It's because in this phrase, "the dead" refers to the group, or class of beings that the person was among, before they came back. It is correct to say "he was among the dead", meaning "he was among dead people".
In the same way, you can say "I was at the Smith's house", and I have come back from the Smiths'. The bonus plural possessive is free of charge :)
9
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
8
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
5
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
 |Â
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In Oxford Living Dictionaries, scroll the page until you reach Phrases, and there you'll find the following fixed phrase
from the dead
From a state of death.
- âÂÂaccording to Christian belief, Jesus rose from the dead three days laterâÂÂ
âÂÂSpain's most infamous spy returned from the dead Monday, five years after his sister published a death notice.âÂÂ
âÂÂWith your bloodshot eyes and pale yellow skin, you look like you've just rose up from the dead.âÂÂ
Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (LDCE), which is a great source for learners, has the following entry
rise/come back/return from the dead
to become alive again after dying
- âÂÂA few weeks later Patrick Ashby came back from the dead and went home to inherit the family house and fortuneâÂÂ
- âÂÂFriends don't come back from the dead, Leila thought, rampaging through the corridor from the canteen.âÂÂ
It is the phrase, or idiom if you prefer, that means âÂÂto come back to lifeâÂÂ. The OP is correct in stating that its opposite should be âÂÂto come back from deathâ (without the article) but we don't say that, instead we use the fixed phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâÂÂ.
from the dead
come back from the dead
1. Reanimated after death.
2. To reappear or regain popularity after a period of absence or decline
- If you don't do exactly what I want at my funeral, I'll come back from the dead and harass you all!
If someone or something comes back from the dead or rises from the dead, they become active or successful again after a period of being inactive or unsuccessful.
- After all, this was a company that, by all appearances, had risen from the dead.
From McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs
rise from the dead and âÂÂrise from the graveâÂÂ
Fig. to come back to life after being dead.
- Albert didn't rise from the dead. He wasn't dead in the first place. The movie was about a teenager who rose from the grave and haunted his high school friends.
1
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
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1
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Well think of people in two groups, the living and the dead.
Also think that as long as people can remember, the dead "went to another land" in mythology.
Hence, to get revived is to "come back from the [land or state of] dead"
Why is not "come back from the Death?" There's only one Death, so there's no definite article.
What would be right is to say "come back from Death", but that's not really idiomatic.
Sometimes ppl do say "conquered Death", or "came back from Death's door".
1
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
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Updated as an answer since I was told having this as a comment was incorrect usage:
I think you've gotten a lot of good answers here, but one more I'd like to throw in is that it IS grammatically correct to say "came back from death" but "the death" doesn't make as much sense grammatically since each death is specific to individuals (what I mean by that is how you die). "came back from their death" makes sense too. So you could say "they came back from the dead", "they came back from death" or "they came back from their death" and all would make sense!
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"the dead" is a definitive adjective meaning "those (who are) dead." Definitive adjectives can be used like nouns. Nothing more needs to be said, as the quote means literally: "from those (who are) dead".
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
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6 Answers
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6 Answers
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active
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active
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up vote
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down vote
accepted
For one thing, you cannot say âÂÂcame back from the deathâÂÂ: death takes no article here. Death works as an abstract condition not a particular instance of one, much like life or hope or joy or sadness or despair. You would not lose the hope; you would just lose hope in general. You would not return from the sadness â unless it were the sadness that befell you upon learning the hour of your death and subsequent loss of hope leading to despair. It doesn't normally get to be a particular instance of a death, let alone of the death. English uses the zero article in many places, and that part is much too big a topic for this question.
But for the main thing, here dead is a noun, usually a plural one.
Tennyson wrote:
Nor canst thou show the dead are dead.
Note please the plural concord with the verb are.
But the phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ is special. It arose from translating the New Testament. The OED says of it:
B. n.
a. singular. One who is dead, a dead person. Formerly with a, and with possessive dead's (dedes, dedis).
b. plural the dead.
c. from the dead [originally translating Latin a mortuis, Greek á¼Âú ýõúÃÂῶý, á¼ÂÃÂὸ ÃÂῶý ýõúÃÂῶý in the New Testament.] : from among those that are dead; hence nearly = from death.
Even Old English did this. The Lindisfarne Gospels written back around 950 had John 2:22 begin with this is Old English:
Miððy uutudlice ariseð from deadum,
Which in the Early Modern English of the KJV ran:
When therefore he was risen from the dead,
And in the Vulgate ran like this in Latin:
Cum ergo resurrexisset a mortuis,
So this phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ has been used that way ever since. ItâÂÂs been in English since before you could even recognize English as English: âÂÂariseth from deadumâ looks almost silly to us these days.
While adjectives can be nominalized and used as a singular to mean the part with that property (like in the dead of night) or in the plural meaning people who have that property (like in the good, the bad, and the ugly; or judging the quick and the dead; or saying that the poor will be with you always), when you see something that looks like itâÂÂs acting like a noun, it probably is as good as âÂÂa real oneâ for nominal purposes like these.
23
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
15
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
6
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
7
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
68
down vote
accepted
For one thing, you cannot say âÂÂcame back from the deathâÂÂ: death takes no article here. Death works as an abstract condition not a particular instance of one, much like life or hope or joy or sadness or despair. You would not lose the hope; you would just lose hope in general. You would not return from the sadness â unless it were the sadness that befell you upon learning the hour of your death and subsequent loss of hope leading to despair. It doesn't normally get to be a particular instance of a death, let alone of the death. English uses the zero article in many places, and that part is much too big a topic for this question.
But for the main thing, here dead is a noun, usually a plural one.
Tennyson wrote:
Nor canst thou show the dead are dead.
Note please the plural concord with the verb are.
But the phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ is special. It arose from translating the New Testament. The OED says of it:
B. n.
a. singular. One who is dead, a dead person. Formerly with a, and with possessive dead's (dedes, dedis).
b. plural the dead.
c. from the dead [originally translating Latin a mortuis, Greek á¼Âú ýõúÃÂῶý, á¼ÂÃÂὸ ÃÂῶý ýõúÃÂῶý in the New Testament.] : from among those that are dead; hence nearly = from death.
Even Old English did this. The Lindisfarne Gospels written back around 950 had John 2:22 begin with this is Old English:
Miððy uutudlice ariseð from deadum,
Which in the Early Modern English of the KJV ran:
When therefore he was risen from the dead,
And in the Vulgate ran like this in Latin:
Cum ergo resurrexisset a mortuis,
So this phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ has been used that way ever since. ItâÂÂs been in English since before you could even recognize English as English: âÂÂariseth from deadumâ looks almost silly to us these days.
While adjectives can be nominalized and used as a singular to mean the part with that property (like in the dead of night) or in the plural meaning people who have that property (like in the good, the bad, and the ugly; or judging the quick and the dead; or saying that the poor will be with you always), when you see something that looks like itâÂÂs acting like a noun, it probably is as good as âÂÂa real oneâ for nominal purposes like these.
23
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
15
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
6
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
7
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
68
down vote
accepted
up vote
68
down vote
accepted
For one thing, you cannot say âÂÂcame back from the deathâÂÂ: death takes no article here. Death works as an abstract condition not a particular instance of one, much like life or hope or joy or sadness or despair. You would not lose the hope; you would just lose hope in general. You would not return from the sadness â unless it were the sadness that befell you upon learning the hour of your death and subsequent loss of hope leading to despair. It doesn't normally get to be a particular instance of a death, let alone of the death. English uses the zero article in many places, and that part is much too big a topic for this question.
But for the main thing, here dead is a noun, usually a plural one.
Tennyson wrote:
Nor canst thou show the dead are dead.
Note please the plural concord with the verb are.
But the phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ is special. It arose from translating the New Testament. The OED says of it:
B. n.
a. singular. One who is dead, a dead person. Formerly with a, and with possessive dead's (dedes, dedis).
b. plural the dead.
c. from the dead [originally translating Latin a mortuis, Greek á¼Âú ýõúÃÂῶý, á¼ÂÃÂὸ ÃÂῶý ýõúÃÂῶý in the New Testament.] : from among those that are dead; hence nearly = from death.
Even Old English did this. The Lindisfarne Gospels written back around 950 had John 2:22 begin with this is Old English:
Miððy uutudlice ariseð from deadum,
Which in the Early Modern English of the KJV ran:
When therefore he was risen from the dead,
And in the Vulgate ran like this in Latin:
Cum ergo resurrexisset a mortuis,
So this phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ has been used that way ever since. ItâÂÂs been in English since before you could even recognize English as English: âÂÂariseth from deadumâ looks almost silly to us these days.
While adjectives can be nominalized and used as a singular to mean the part with that property (like in the dead of night) or in the plural meaning people who have that property (like in the good, the bad, and the ugly; or judging the quick and the dead; or saying that the poor will be with you always), when you see something that looks like itâÂÂs acting like a noun, it probably is as good as âÂÂa real oneâ for nominal purposes like these.
For one thing, you cannot say âÂÂcame back from the deathâÂÂ: death takes no article here. Death works as an abstract condition not a particular instance of one, much like life or hope or joy or sadness or despair. You would not lose the hope; you would just lose hope in general. You would not return from the sadness â unless it were the sadness that befell you upon learning the hour of your death and subsequent loss of hope leading to despair. It doesn't normally get to be a particular instance of a death, let alone of the death. English uses the zero article in many places, and that part is much too big a topic for this question.
But for the main thing, here dead is a noun, usually a plural one.
Tennyson wrote:
Nor canst thou show the dead are dead.
Note please the plural concord with the verb are.
But the phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ is special. It arose from translating the New Testament. The OED says of it:
B. n.
a. singular. One who is dead, a dead person. Formerly with a, and with possessive dead's (dedes, dedis).
b. plural the dead.
c. from the dead [originally translating Latin a mortuis, Greek á¼Âú ýõúÃÂῶý, á¼ÂÃÂὸ ÃÂῶý ýõúÃÂῶý in the New Testament.] : from among those that are dead; hence nearly = from death.
Even Old English did this. The Lindisfarne Gospels written back around 950 had John 2:22 begin with this is Old English:
Miððy uutudlice ariseð from deadum,
Which in the Early Modern English of the KJV ran:
When therefore he was risen from the dead,
And in the Vulgate ran like this in Latin:
Cum ergo resurrexisset a mortuis,
So this phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâ has been used that way ever since. ItâÂÂs been in English since before you could even recognize English as English: âÂÂariseth from deadumâ looks almost silly to us these days.
While adjectives can be nominalized and used as a singular to mean the part with that property (like in the dead of night) or in the plural meaning people who have that property (like in the good, the bad, and the ugly; or judging the quick and the dead; or saying that the poor will be with you always), when you see something that looks like itâÂÂs acting like a noun, it probably is as good as âÂÂa real oneâ for nominal purposes like these.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jSlyx.gif?s=32&g=1)
![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jSlyx.gif?s=32&g=1)
tchristâ¦
105k26281447
105k26281447
23
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
15
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
6
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
7
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
 |Â
show 6 more comments
23
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
15
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
6
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
7
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
23
23
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
@Kris Some people haven't been speaking it all their lives you know.
â tchristâ¦
2 days ago
15
15
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
@Alexis_FR_JP âÂÂâÂÂfrom the deadâ doesn't mean âÂÂfrom someone who is deadâ but âÂÂfrom the state of being deadâÂÂâ â You assert this without evidence, and in fact ignoring existing evidence to the contrary. In fact, as this answer shows, it does mean precisely this: âÂÂfrom [amongst] the dead [people]âÂÂ, which is close to the literal translation from Latin (and Ancient Greek).
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
6
6
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
Just to add to the already very well explained: the original greek, unlike the english translation, shows clearly that it's a plural (genitive plural) without needing any verb. So, if in the translation we choose "corpse", which unlike "dead" have a distinct plural, we'd have: "from the corpses".
â Gerardo Furtado
2 days ago
7
7
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
@MrLister Sounds plausible but given the original Latin and Ancient Greek, thatâÂÂs unlikely. âÂÂmortuisâ and âÂÂýõúÃÂῶýâ both literally translate to âÂÂthose that are deadâÂÂ/âÂÂthe dead onesâÂÂ.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
2
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
@psmears You left out âÂÂá¼ÂÃÂὸâÂÂ, which means âÂÂ[away] fromâ and takes a genitive; so the whole sentence fragment definitely translates as âÂÂfrom those that are deadâÂÂ, not âÂÂof â¦â (it could alternatively mean âÂÂbecause of â¦â but this doesnâÂÂt make sense here).
â Konrad Rudolph
yesterday
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
20
down vote
It's because in this phrase, "the dead" refers to the group, or class of beings that the person was among, before they came back. It is correct to say "he was among the dead", meaning "he was among dead people".
In the same way, you can say "I was at the Smith's house", and I have come back from the Smiths'. The bonus plural possessive is free of charge :)
9
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
8
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
5
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
20
down vote
It's because in this phrase, "the dead" refers to the group, or class of beings that the person was among, before they came back. It is correct to say "he was among the dead", meaning "he was among dead people".
In the same way, you can say "I was at the Smith's house", and I have come back from the Smiths'. The bonus plural possessive is free of charge :)
9
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
8
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
5
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
20
down vote
up vote
20
down vote
It's because in this phrase, "the dead" refers to the group, or class of beings that the person was among, before they came back. It is correct to say "he was among the dead", meaning "he was among dead people".
In the same way, you can say "I was at the Smith's house", and I have come back from the Smiths'. The bonus plural possessive is free of charge :)
It's because in this phrase, "the dead" refers to the group, or class of beings that the person was among, before they came back. It is correct to say "he was among the dead", meaning "he was among dead people".
In the same way, you can say "I was at the Smith's house", and I have come back from the Smiths'. The bonus plural possessive is free of charge :)
answered 2 days ago
Adam Kelly
2012
2012
9
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
8
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
5
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
9
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
8
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
5
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
9
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
@Mari-LouA No, it is referring to a group of people. ItâÂÂs figurative: ItâÂÂs about coming back from heaven/purgatory/wherever all the dead souls hangout. The phrase refers to somebody coming back after visiting (and having a lava lake side drink?) with those that have died.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
8
8
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
@Mari-LouA IâÂÂve read them, and my comment merely rehashes tchristâÂÂs answer (see also my comment there). Forgive me if this isnâÂÂt the case, but you seem not to understand what âÂÂfigurativeâ means. Of course the phrase refers to resurrection (or something like it). But its way of expressing this is, figuratively, by referring to the dead people that the subject of the phrase is coming back from.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
9
9
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
@Mari-LouA I donâÂÂt understand what you want to say. âÂÂthe phrase ⦠is specialâ doesnâÂÂt mean that âÂÂthe deadâ in that phrase doesnâÂÂt refer to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. It merely means that we have additional information in this particular case. And that additional information emphatically confirms that âÂÂthe deadâ in this phrase very much refers to âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ. ItâÂÂs the literal translation from the Latin and Ancient Greek original.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
2
2
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
@KonradRudolph It's true the etymology and biblical meaning of "from the dead" are "from the [group of] dead people". But I'd say it has become enough of an English idiom that this is no longer necessarily the intended or commonly understood meaning. Someone who doesn't believe there is any meaningful community of dead people can use the phrase anyway. And it can be used figuratively of a non-living thing, like a piece of hardware, a meme, etc.
â aschepler
2 days ago
5
5
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
@aschepler IâÂÂm sorry â IâÂÂm baffled how my comment can be so thoroughly misunderstood, given that I stated explicitly that the use is figurative. Of course (almost?) nobody using that phrase thinks that the subject of it literally walked out of a place full of literally dead bodies. Yes, itâÂÂs an idiom. That doesnâÂÂt change what is referred to, especially in the context of OP asking about the grammatical meaning of âÂÂdeadâÂÂ. Grammatically, it is unambiguously a noun phrase, standing for âÂÂthe dead peopleâÂÂ, not âÂÂdeathâÂÂ. Debating this simply makes no sense.
â Konrad Rudolph
2 days ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
In Oxford Living Dictionaries, scroll the page until you reach Phrases, and there you'll find the following fixed phrase
from the dead
From a state of death.
- âÂÂaccording to Christian belief, Jesus rose from the dead three days laterâÂÂ
âÂÂSpain's most infamous spy returned from the dead Monday, five years after his sister published a death notice.âÂÂ
âÂÂWith your bloodshot eyes and pale yellow skin, you look like you've just rose up from the dead.âÂÂ
Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (LDCE), which is a great source for learners, has the following entry
rise/come back/return from the dead
to become alive again after dying
- âÂÂA few weeks later Patrick Ashby came back from the dead and went home to inherit the family house and fortuneâÂÂ
- âÂÂFriends don't come back from the dead, Leila thought, rampaging through the corridor from the canteen.âÂÂ
It is the phrase, or idiom if you prefer, that means âÂÂto come back to lifeâÂÂ. The OP is correct in stating that its opposite should be âÂÂto come back from deathâ (without the article) but we don't say that, instead we use the fixed phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâÂÂ.
from the dead
come back from the dead
1. Reanimated after death.
2. To reappear or regain popularity after a period of absence or decline
- If you don't do exactly what I want at my funeral, I'll come back from the dead and harass you all!
If someone or something comes back from the dead or rises from the dead, they become active or successful again after a period of being inactive or unsuccessful.
- After all, this was a company that, by all appearances, had risen from the dead.
From McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs
rise from the dead and âÂÂrise from the graveâÂÂ
Fig. to come back to life after being dead.
- Albert didn't rise from the dead. He wasn't dead in the first place. The movie was about a teenager who rose from the grave and haunted his high school friends.
1
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
In Oxford Living Dictionaries, scroll the page until you reach Phrases, and there you'll find the following fixed phrase
from the dead
From a state of death.
- âÂÂaccording to Christian belief, Jesus rose from the dead three days laterâÂÂ
âÂÂSpain's most infamous spy returned from the dead Monday, five years after his sister published a death notice.âÂÂ
âÂÂWith your bloodshot eyes and pale yellow skin, you look like you've just rose up from the dead.âÂÂ
Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (LDCE), which is a great source for learners, has the following entry
rise/come back/return from the dead
to become alive again after dying
- âÂÂA few weeks later Patrick Ashby came back from the dead and went home to inherit the family house and fortuneâÂÂ
- âÂÂFriends don't come back from the dead, Leila thought, rampaging through the corridor from the canteen.âÂÂ
It is the phrase, or idiom if you prefer, that means âÂÂto come back to lifeâÂÂ. The OP is correct in stating that its opposite should be âÂÂto come back from deathâ (without the article) but we don't say that, instead we use the fixed phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâÂÂ.
from the dead
come back from the dead
1. Reanimated after death.
2. To reappear or regain popularity after a period of absence or decline
- If you don't do exactly what I want at my funeral, I'll come back from the dead and harass you all!
If someone or something comes back from the dead or rises from the dead, they become active or successful again after a period of being inactive or unsuccessful.
- After all, this was a company that, by all appearances, had risen from the dead.
From McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs
rise from the dead and âÂÂrise from the graveâÂÂ
Fig. to come back to life after being dead.
- Albert didn't rise from the dead. He wasn't dead in the first place. The movie was about a teenager who rose from the grave and haunted his high school friends.
1
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
up vote
12
down vote
In Oxford Living Dictionaries, scroll the page until you reach Phrases, and there you'll find the following fixed phrase
from the dead
From a state of death.
- âÂÂaccording to Christian belief, Jesus rose from the dead three days laterâÂÂ
âÂÂSpain's most infamous spy returned from the dead Monday, five years after his sister published a death notice.âÂÂ
âÂÂWith your bloodshot eyes and pale yellow skin, you look like you've just rose up from the dead.âÂÂ
Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (LDCE), which is a great source for learners, has the following entry
rise/come back/return from the dead
to become alive again after dying
- âÂÂA few weeks later Patrick Ashby came back from the dead and went home to inherit the family house and fortuneâÂÂ
- âÂÂFriends don't come back from the dead, Leila thought, rampaging through the corridor from the canteen.âÂÂ
It is the phrase, or idiom if you prefer, that means âÂÂto come back to lifeâÂÂ. The OP is correct in stating that its opposite should be âÂÂto come back from deathâ (without the article) but we don't say that, instead we use the fixed phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâÂÂ.
from the dead
come back from the dead
1. Reanimated after death.
2. To reappear or regain popularity after a period of absence or decline
- If you don't do exactly what I want at my funeral, I'll come back from the dead and harass you all!
If someone or something comes back from the dead or rises from the dead, they become active or successful again after a period of being inactive or unsuccessful.
- After all, this was a company that, by all appearances, had risen from the dead.
From McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs
rise from the dead and âÂÂrise from the graveâÂÂ
Fig. to come back to life after being dead.
- Albert didn't rise from the dead. He wasn't dead in the first place. The movie was about a teenager who rose from the grave and haunted his high school friends.
In Oxford Living Dictionaries, scroll the page until you reach Phrases, and there you'll find the following fixed phrase
from the dead
From a state of death.
- âÂÂaccording to Christian belief, Jesus rose from the dead three days laterâÂÂ
âÂÂSpain's most infamous spy returned from the dead Monday, five years after his sister published a death notice.âÂÂ
âÂÂWith your bloodshot eyes and pale yellow skin, you look like you've just rose up from the dead.âÂÂ
Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (LDCE), which is a great source for learners, has the following entry
rise/come back/return from the dead
to become alive again after dying
- âÂÂA few weeks later Patrick Ashby came back from the dead and went home to inherit the family house and fortuneâÂÂ
- âÂÂFriends don't come back from the dead, Leila thought, rampaging through the corridor from the canteen.âÂÂ
It is the phrase, or idiom if you prefer, that means âÂÂto come back to lifeâÂÂ. The OP is correct in stating that its opposite should be âÂÂto come back from deathâ (without the article) but we don't say that, instead we use the fixed phrase âÂÂfrom the deadâÂÂ.
from the dead
come back from the dead
1. Reanimated after death.
2. To reappear or regain popularity after a period of absence or decline
- If you don't do exactly what I want at my funeral, I'll come back from the dead and harass you all!
If someone or something comes back from the dead or rises from the dead, they become active or successful again after a period of being inactive or unsuccessful.
- After all, this was a company that, by all appearances, had risen from the dead.
From McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs
rise from the dead and âÂÂrise from the graveâÂÂ
Fig. to come back to life after being dead.
- Albert didn't rise from the dead. He wasn't dead in the first place. The movie was about a teenager who rose from the grave and haunted his high school friends.
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Wxvk5.jpg?s=32&g=1)
![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Wxvk5.jpg?s=32&g=1)
Mari-Lou A
59.7k48207430
59.7k48207430
1
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
1
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
1
1
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
Hey Mari-Lou - upvote for research & citations instead of relying on your intuition...
â Spike0xff
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Well think of people in two groups, the living and the dead.
Also think that as long as people can remember, the dead "went to another land" in mythology.
Hence, to get revived is to "come back from the [land or state of] dead"
Why is not "come back from the Death?" There's only one Death, so there's no definite article.
What would be right is to say "come back from Death", but that's not really idiomatic.
Sometimes ppl do say "conquered Death", or "came back from Death's door".
1
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Well think of people in two groups, the living and the dead.
Also think that as long as people can remember, the dead "went to another land" in mythology.
Hence, to get revived is to "come back from the [land or state of] dead"
Why is not "come back from the Death?" There's only one Death, so there's no definite article.
What would be right is to say "come back from Death", but that's not really idiomatic.
Sometimes ppl do say "conquered Death", or "came back from Death's door".
1
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Well think of people in two groups, the living and the dead.
Also think that as long as people can remember, the dead "went to another land" in mythology.
Hence, to get revived is to "come back from the [land or state of] dead"
Why is not "come back from the Death?" There's only one Death, so there's no definite article.
What would be right is to say "come back from Death", but that's not really idiomatic.
Sometimes ppl do say "conquered Death", or "came back from Death's door".
Well think of people in two groups, the living and the dead.
Also think that as long as people can remember, the dead "went to another land" in mythology.
Hence, to get revived is to "come back from the [land or state of] dead"
Why is not "come back from the Death?" There's only one Death, so there's no definite article.
What would be right is to say "come back from Death", but that's not really idiomatic.
Sometimes ppl do say "conquered Death", or "came back from Death's door".
answered 2 days ago
Joel M Ward
674
674
1
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
add a comment |Â
1
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
1
1
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
In the context, you might even want to refer to the two groups as "the quick and the dead" - which is exactly the wording used in the King James bible. ("Quick" in the old sense of "alive", rather than "speedy")
â Martin Bonner
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Updated as an answer since I was told having this as a comment was incorrect usage:
I think you've gotten a lot of good answers here, but one more I'd like to throw in is that it IS grammatically correct to say "came back from death" but "the death" doesn't make as much sense grammatically since each death is specific to individuals (what I mean by that is how you die). "came back from their death" makes sense too. So you could say "they came back from the dead", "they came back from death" or "they came back from their death" and all would make sense!
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Updated as an answer since I was told having this as a comment was incorrect usage:
I think you've gotten a lot of good answers here, but one more I'd like to throw in is that it IS grammatically correct to say "came back from death" but "the death" doesn't make as much sense grammatically since each death is specific to individuals (what I mean by that is how you die). "came back from their death" makes sense too. So you could say "they came back from the dead", "they came back from death" or "they came back from their death" and all would make sense!
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Updated as an answer since I was told having this as a comment was incorrect usage:
I think you've gotten a lot of good answers here, but one more I'd like to throw in is that it IS grammatically correct to say "came back from death" but "the death" doesn't make as much sense grammatically since each death is specific to individuals (what I mean by that is how you die). "came back from their death" makes sense too. So you could say "they came back from the dead", "they came back from death" or "they came back from their death" and all would make sense!
Updated as an answer since I was told having this as a comment was incorrect usage:
I think you've gotten a lot of good answers here, but one more I'd like to throw in is that it IS grammatically correct to say "came back from death" but "the death" doesn't make as much sense grammatically since each death is specific to individuals (what I mean by that is how you die). "came back from their death" makes sense too. So you could say "they came back from the dead", "they came back from death" or "they came back from their death" and all would make sense!
answered yesterday
J0hn
1112
1112
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
"the dead" is a definitive adjective meaning "those (who are) dead." Definitive adjectives can be used like nouns. Nothing more needs to be said, as the quote means literally: "from those (who are) dead".
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
"the dead" is a definitive adjective meaning "those (who are) dead." Definitive adjectives can be used like nouns. Nothing more needs to be said, as the quote means literally: "from those (who are) dead".
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
"the dead" is a definitive adjective meaning "those (who are) dead." Definitive adjectives can be used like nouns. Nothing more needs to be said, as the quote means literally: "from those (who are) dead".
"the dead" is a definitive adjective meaning "those (who are) dead." Definitive adjectives can be used like nouns. Nothing more needs to be said, as the quote means literally: "from those (who are) dead".
answered yesterday
James Rinkevich
1
1
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
add a comment |Â
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
Welcome to ELU, please add a source to support your answer.
â JJJ
yesterday
add a comment |Â
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20
"the dead" = all people who are dead. It is a noun. You can see it often in zombie stories as the phrase "the dead are rising from their graves" to mean literally mean that the dead become undead and crawl out of their graves.
â Polygnome
2 days ago
17
"he came back from the dead" = "he came back from (among all) the dead (persons)" = "he came back from (where all) the dead ((supposedly) are)" HTH. Why complicate. BTW, the dead is a noun phrase.
â Kris
2 days ago
@Kris I'm sorry you are mistaken and it's a mistake that I also made initially. The dictionary references, I cited, prove this. "I have come back from the dead" means "I have come back to life" Now where you die may be in the place where the dead reside but that is different. Do you see how "the dead" in the previous sentence has a different meaning? This is not the case of the definite article being used with an adjective to make a category, e.g. "the sick", "the rich", "the idle", "the Swiss" etc. In the OP's example, it is about death.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago
9
@MariLouA Oh come on, that's empty argumentation. Kris is right: "The dead" is a noun category after all (read the accepted answer). It harks back to a time when most people thought the dead went somewhere after they died, and might come back to haunt them later. However, since you can't literally come back to life, "the dead" almost always used figuratively.
â Spencer
2 days ago
@Spencer Yes, I agree that "The dead" is a category, it means all the people who have died (all the dead people). If someone gives money to "the sick", it means they donate money to sick people. We say "the rich get richer" which means rich people are getting richer. But you don't "rise from all the dead people", you don't "come back from (all) the dead people." Psychics claim they can speak to the dead i.e. (people who have deceased) The phrase cited by the OP is "come back from the dead" it's a VERBAL phrase which means to resurrect, to come back to life.
â Mari-Lou A
2 days ago