Moisture Trapped in IP66 Enclosure

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I got a field report of a product which is sealed in an IP66 aluminum die cast body. it was observed that water/moisture had condensed inside the enclosure over and over and creating some white marks inside (see attached). The product was installed in a US region about a year ago.



Corner of aluminum box sowing white discoloration and wiring



It was reported the top cover was screwed on properly, and there is no way water can get in. However one question in my mind is: we install this product on a street light pole, and the top cover is screwed on in the field only after the power cable gets in. So what if the atmosphere is already full of moisture during installation? That moisture will be trapped in the enclosure and sealed after covering the top. And due to the weather changing over and over that moisture gets condensed over and over and creates the problem. How can I get out of this? One way I think would be to use some kind of silica bag to absorb moisture. Any advice?







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  • I don't think there's much more to say that you don't already know. You're confident that the enclosure didn't leak, so a desiccant (silica gel) and/or filling the enclosure with a dry inert gas are pretty much your only options.
    – brhans
    Aug 1 at 17:25






  • 9




    Backfill with dry nitrogen gas just before sealing down the unit. But my guess is that the unit isn't as sealed as you imagine, with wires entering and exiting the box, and folks "man-handling" during installation or re-work.
    – jonk
    Aug 1 at 17:25











  • A customer wanted to put some of our electronics that we supply in NEMA 4 boxes underwater and found that Magic Gel works great. raytech.it/product/low-voltage/magic-gel?lang=en
    – Warren
    2 days ago






  • 8




    Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a 3mm ball of water. More than that and it got in afterwards
    – Henry Crun
    2 days ago










  • By "before one year" do you mean "less than a year ago", or "more than a year ago"?
    – psmears
    2 days ago
















up vote
27
down vote

favorite
7












I got a field report of a product which is sealed in an IP66 aluminum die cast body. it was observed that water/moisture had condensed inside the enclosure over and over and creating some white marks inside (see attached). The product was installed in a US region about a year ago.



Corner of aluminum box sowing white discoloration and wiring



It was reported the top cover was screwed on properly, and there is no way water can get in. However one question in my mind is: we install this product on a street light pole, and the top cover is screwed on in the field only after the power cable gets in. So what if the atmosphere is already full of moisture during installation? That moisture will be trapped in the enclosure and sealed after covering the top. And due to the weather changing over and over that moisture gets condensed over and over and creates the problem. How can I get out of this? One way I think would be to use some kind of silica bag to absorb moisture. Any advice?







share|improve this question





















  • I don't think there's much more to say that you don't already know. You're confident that the enclosure didn't leak, so a desiccant (silica gel) and/or filling the enclosure with a dry inert gas are pretty much your only options.
    – brhans
    Aug 1 at 17:25






  • 9




    Backfill with dry nitrogen gas just before sealing down the unit. But my guess is that the unit isn't as sealed as you imagine, with wires entering and exiting the box, and folks "man-handling" during installation or re-work.
    – jonk
    Aug 1 at 17:25











  • A customer wanted to put some of our electronics that we supply in NEMA 4 boxes underwater and found that Magic Gel works great. raytech.it/product/low-voltage/magic-gel?lang=en
    – Warren
    2 days ago






  • 8




    Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a 3mm ball of water. More than that and it got in afterwards
    – Henry Crun
    2 days ago










  • By "before one year" do you mean "less than a year ago", or "more than a year ago"?
    – psmears
    2 days ago












up vote
27
down vote

favorite
7









up vote
27
down vote

favorite
7






7





I got a field report of a product which is sealed in an IP66 aluminum die cast body. it was observed that water/moisture had condensed inside the enclosure over and over and creating some white marks inside (see attached). The product was installed in a US region about a year ago.



Corner of aluminum box sowing white discoloration and wiring



It was reported the top cover was screwed on properly, and there is no way water can get in. However one question in my mind is: we install this product on a street light pole, and the top cover is screwed on in the field only after the power cable gets in. So what if the atmosphere is already full of moisture during installation? That moisture will be trapped in the enclosure and sealed after covering the top. And due to the weather changing over and over that moisture gets condensed over and over and creates the problem. How can I get out of this? One way I think would be to use some kind of silica bag to absorb moisture. Any advice?







share|improve this question













I got a field report of a product which is sealed in an IP66 aluminum die cast body. it was observed that water/moisture had condensed inside the enclosure over and over and creating some white marks inside (see attached). The product was installed in a US region about a year ago.



Corner of aluminum box sowing white discoloration and wiring



It was reported the top cover was screwed on properly, and there is no way water can get in. However one question in my mind is: we install this product on a street light pole, and the top cover is screwed on in the field only after the power cable gets in. So what if the atmosphere is already full of moisture during installation? That moisture will be trapped in the enclosure and sealed after covering the top. And due to the weather changing over and over that moisture gets condensed over and over and creates the problem. How can I get out of this? One way I think would be to use some kind of silica bag to absorb moisture. Any advice?









share|improve this question












share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









psmears

52735




52735









asked Aug 1 at 17:01









Transformer

312410




312410











  • I don't think there's much more to say that you don't already know. You're confident that the enclosure didn't leak, so a desiccant (silica gel) and/or filling the enclosure with a dry inert gas are pretty much your only options.
    – brhans
    Aug 1 at 17:25






  • 9




    Backfill with dry nitrogen gas just before sealing down the unit. But my guess is that the unit isn't as sealed as you imagine, with wires entering and exiting the box, and folks "man-handling" during installation or re-work.
    – jonk
    Aug 1 at 17:25











  • A customer wanted to put some of our electronics that we supply in NEMA 4 boxes underwater and found that Magic Gel works great. raytech.it/product/low-voltage/magic-gel?lang=en
    – Warren
    2 days ago






  • 8




    Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a 3mm ball of water. More than that and it got in afterwards
    – Henry Crun
    2 days ago










  • By "before one year" do you mean "less than a year ago", or "more than a year ago"?
    – psmears
    2 days ago
















  • I don't think there's much more to say that you don't already know. You're confident that the enclosure didn't leak, so a desiccant (silica gel) and/or filling the enclosure with a dry inert gas are pretty much your only options.
    – brhans
    Aug 1 at 17:25






  • 9




    Backfill with dry nitrogen gas just before sealing down the unit. But my guess is that the unit isn't as sealed as you imagine, with wires entering and exiting the box, and folks "man-handling" during installation or re-work.
    – jonk
    Aug 1 at 17:25











  • A customer wanted to put some of our electronics that we supply in NEMA 4 boxes underwater and found that Magic Gel works great. raytech.it/product/low-voltage/magic-gel?lang=en
    – Warren
    2 days ago






  • 8




    Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a 3mm ball of water. More than that and it got in afterwards
    – Henry Crun
    2 days ago










  • By "before one year" do you mean "less than a year ago", or "more than a year ago"?
    – psmears
    2 days ago















I don't think there's much more to say that you don't already know. You're confident that the enclosure didn't leak, so a desiccant (silica gel) and/or filling the enclosure with a dry inert gas are pretty much your only options.
– brhans
Aug 1 at 17:25




I don't think there's much more to say that you don't already know. You're confident that the enclosure didn't leak, so a desiccant (silica gel) and/or filling the enclosure with a dry inert gas are pretty much your only options.
– brhans
Aug 1 at 17:25




9




9




Backfill with dry nitrogen gas just before sealing down the unit. But my guess is that the unit isn't as sealed as you imagine, with wires entering and exiting the box, and folks "man-handling" during installation or re-work.
– jonk
Aug 1 at 17:25





Backfill with dry nitrogen gas just before sealing down the unit. But my guess is that the unit isn't as sealed as you imagine, with wires entering and exiting the box, and folks "man-handling" during installation or re-work.
– jonk
Aug 1 at 17:25













A customer wanted to put some of our electronics that we supply in NEMA 4 boxes underwater and found that Magic Gel works great. raytech.it/product/low-voltage/magic-gel?lang=en
– Warren
2 days ago




A customer wanted to put some of our electronics that we supply in NEMA 4 boxes underwater and found that Magic Gel works great. raytech.it/product/low-voltage/magic-gel?lang=en
– Warren
2 days ago




8




8




Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a 3mm ball of water. More than that and it got in afterwards
– Henry Crun
2 days ago




Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a 3mm ball of water. More than that and it got in afterwards
– Henry Crun
2 days ago












By "before one year" do you mean "less than a year ago", or "more than a year ago"?
– psmears
2 days ago




By "before one year" do you mean "less than a year ago", or "more than a year ago"?
– psmears
2 days ago










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
43
down vote













Here's what happened to a product I designed that was IP69K (Protection against powerful high temperature water jets). It was installed in China and failed after about a couple of years. When looked into there was about 1.5 inches of water slopping about. Seemingly a mystery.



However, it turned out to be a progressive build up of humidity. Every night the product was turned-off and internally it started to cool over night. During that period the internal pressure lowered (because the internal air cooled) and it sucked-in high-humidity air from the surroundings. That settled out on top of the microscopic layer of water that was ingested the previous night. Gradually it built up until it reached a switch mode power supply then bang.



The way we got out of this was selling the option of having a drain plug fitted and each order was processed with attention to that humidity problem.



Silica gel will work but only has a limited lifespan before it needs to be replaced. A positive pressure inside will help - if it's sealed as good as you suggest you can buy slow leak gas cartridges that keep the pressure positive - they are used in the petrochem industry and are akin to flameproofing by using pressure to stop volatile gases entering and potentially being ignited.






share|improve this answer

















  • 5




    I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
    – jonk
    Aug 1 at 17:31






  • 6




    +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
    – Spehro Pefhany
    Aug 1 at 19:02







  • 10




    The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
    – Henry Crun
    Aug 1 at 21:01






  • 2




    For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
    – Henry Crun
    2 days ago






  • 5




    @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
    – Henry Crun
    2 days ago

















up vote
17
down vote













Andy exactly describes the mechanism I have also seen . Because of this I favor inverted bucket case designs which do not rely on seals, wherever possible. "The definition of waterproof is the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole on top"
Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a ~3mm ball of water.



I found scotch-brite pads to be a good breather vent and bug stopper for fixed equipment.



I have also just cut a disc of Gortex raincoat fabric and siliconed it into the case. (on top of metal mesh if you have gnawing bugs). I did some transpiration experiments years ago testing the 6 different types of breathable fabrics that I could get. (silicon fabric onto top of cup of water, and leave in hot water cupboard). Genuine Goretex was more than 2x better than the clones at the time.



There are specialist screw in and stick on breathers nowadays. (A lot smaller than the 1.5" Gortex patches I used though)



Mounting the case at 10 degrees to horizontal results in the water pooling in the corner. It is good to plan for where the water will go. A small drain hole there will see the overpressure force liquid water out the drain hole during the day. Put a some type of wick in drain holes so water drops do drain down.



A sunshade and/or white colour reduces the internal temperature, and therefore the overpressure that forces air out during the day (and thus sucks moisture in at night. As an aside, there is IR reflective paint that results in dark colors in the sun being 10degC cooler.



In a recent datalogger design used in the splash zone on boats, I put a hygrometer chip in, just to know if water had leaked in.






share|improve this answer






























    up vote
    15
    down vote













    I once found water in a box like that installed INSIDE a house. I was baffled about where it could come from. Turns out the water wicked itself through the wire going into the box, coming from another (similar) box on the roof that was full of water. So basically the electrical wire was operating as a hose. I can't see very well on the picture you're providing, but if applicable, maybe investigate the possibility that water came in through the wiring? Even if the wires only come in from underneath, if the wire is going up, the pressure could force the water through the wiring.
    Hope this helps.






    share|improve this answer




























      up vote
      10
      down vote













      What you want is to prevent condensation from the thermal difference between the case and internal air. This depends on the relative humidity of the internal air to not exceed the dew point.



      IP67 specifies prevent vapor pressure leaks submersed to 2~3m under water tested for >=1hr as per supplier specs.



      IP66 only protects against external water spray and IP69 only protects against higher pressure water spray.



      But neither can guarantee prevention of condensation if the RH of contained air is high.



      Possible remedies



      • power wire entry voids the IP66 rating so liquid rubber sealant is needed

      • Epoxy Conformal spray to case interior

      • PCB with ENIG pads or equivalent gold alloy.

      • Conformally coated PCBA with mask for LEDs.

      • Desiccant.

        -Teflon gas plug

      • internal heater (Hygrotherm)

      • thermal insulation to case interior

      The last suggestion requires measuring or calculating the need to conduct heat outside and prevent a temperature gradient on the inside inducing condensation above Dew Point.



      The Dew Point drops with rising air pressure so allowing an H2 pressure leak with a Teflon plug still blocks Vapour Pressure of H2O.



      Each of these solutions may cause new thermal problems if you need heat conduction, so this is a factor to consider.



      • The neoprene gasket seal must be a smooth interface on the case to have a constant high pressure seal which may be a problem on aluminum castings.


      • Testing should include rapid temperature cycling and monitoring internal condensation with condensation ink dots ( like those used in Apple products which change colour) and perhaps internal pressure.


      • Avoiding Solar heating also helps if possible for reducing thermal shock.






      share|improve this answer






























        up vote
        3
        down vote













        As long as ambient air can reach the area changes in weather will cause condensation when the air is humid and the metal is cold.
        The same problem can happen in houses that don't have good vapor barrier protection in the walls- protecting the inside of the perimeter walls from the humid air the can come from living inside a house where bathing, cooking, breathing occurs. When the vapor barrier is inadequate to the point where humid air can penetrate the cold outside/perimeter wall if there is not something to fill the wall space- insulation, the humid air will condense on the wall and can cause ice dams, moisture collection and ultimately rot.

        In looking at your problem from this perspective, air sealing the enclosure and filling it with insulation is my answer.






        share|improve this answer





















        • I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
          – WhatRoughBeast
          2 days ago






        • 1




          Moisture + cold = ice.
          – Sam Williams
          yesterday






        • 1




          @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
          – Henry Crun
          yesterday


















        up vote
        3
        down vote













        I've observed, learned from (the hard way), and later protected from this phenomenon on a number of outdoor products. You can also see a similar effect if the enclosure becomes very hot (e.g. direct daytime sun) and then experiences a cold rain shower. The rapid temperature change cancreate a negative pressure capable of sucking water in right through NEMA 4X (hosedown) rated seals.



        If you want to maintain your ingress protection rating while allowing for the exchange of air, you can use the product we ended up selecting, a breathable-membrane sealed vent from Gore:
        https://www.gore.com/products/categories/venting?view=protective-vents-for-outdoor-electronics






        share|improve this answer




























          up vote
          2
          down vote













          You are already in the right direction. That happened also to us in a completely sealed product we designed.



          Just to add a graphic description of what the other people are describing, check this video:
          https://www.bopla.de/en/service/technical-information/pressure-compensation-elements.html






          share|improve this answer





















          • :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
            – Transformer
            2 days ago

















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Search for something "to avoid accumulation of water" like from Rittal:




          Product – System accessories – Base – To avoid accumulation of water:



          • Pressure relief stoppers ...


          • Condensate discharge for reliable discharge from the inside ...







          share|improve this answer





















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            8 Answers
            8






            active

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            8 Answers
            8






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            43
            down vote













            Here's what happened to a product I designed that was IP69K (Protection against powerful high temperature water jets). It was installed in China and failed after about a couple of years. When looked into there was about 1.5 inches of water slopping about. Seemingly a mystery.



            However, it turned out to be a progressive build up of humidity. Every night the product was turned-off and internally it started to cool over night. During that period the internal pressure lowered (because the internal air cooled) and it sucked-in high-humidity air from the surroundings. That settled out on top of the microscopic layer of water that was ingested the previous night. Gradually it built up until it reached a switch mode power supply then bang.



            The way we got out of this was selling the option of having a drain plug fitted and each order was processed with attention to that humidity problem.



            Silica gel will work but only has a limited lifespan before it needs to be replaced. A positive pressure inside will help - if it's sealed as good as you suggest you can buy slow leak gas cartridges that keep the pressure positive - they are used in the petrochem industry and are akin to flameproofing by using pressure to stop volatile gases entering and potentially being ignited.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 5




              I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
              – jonk
              Aug 1 at 17:31






            • 6




              +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
              – Spehro Pefhany
              Aug 1 at 19:02







            • 10




              The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
              – Henry Crun
              Aug 1 at 21:01






            • 2




              For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago






            • 5




              @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago














            up vote
            43
            down vote













            Here's what happened to a product I designed that was IP69K (Protection against powerful high temperature water jets). It was installed in China and failed after about a couple of years. When looked into there was about 1.5 inches of water slopping about. Seemingly a mystery.



            However, it turned out to be a progressive build up of humidity. Every night the product was turned-off and internally it started to cool over night. During that period the internal pressure lowered (because the internal air cooled) and it sucked-in high-humidity air from the surroundings. That settled out on top of the microscopic layer of water that was ingested the previous night. Gradually it built up until it reached a switch mode power supply then bang.



            The way we got out of this was selling the option of having a drain plug fitted and each order was processed with attention to that humidity problem.



            Silica gel will work but only has a limited lifespan before it needs to be replaced. A positive pressure inside will help - if it's sealed as good as you suggest you can buy slow leak gas cartridges that keep the pressure positive - they are used in the petrochem industry and are akin to flameproofing by using pressure to stop volatile gases entering and potentially being ignited.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 5




              I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
              – jonk
              Aug 1 at 17:31






            • 6




              +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
              – Spehro Pefhany
              Aug 1 at 19:02







            • 10




              The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
              – Henry Crun
              Aug 1 at 21:01






            • 2




              For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago






            • 5




              @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago












            up vote
            43
            down vote










            up vote
            43
            down vote









            Here's what happened to a product I designed that was IP69K (Protection against powerful high temperature water jets). It was installed in China and failed after about a couple of years. When looked into there was about 1.5 inches of water slopping about. Seemingly a mystery.



            However, it turned out to be a progressive build up of humidity. Every night the product was turned-off and internally it started to cool over night. During that period the internal pressure lowered (because the internal air cooled) and it sucked-in high-humidity air from the surroundings. That settled out on top of the microscopic layer of water that was ingested the previous night. Gradually it built up until it reached a switch mode power supply then bang.



            The way we got out of this was selling the option of having a drain plug fitted and each order was processed with attention to that humidity problem.



            Silica gel will work but only has a limited lifespan before it needs to be replaced. A positive pressure inside will help - if it's sealed as good as you suggest you can buy slow leak gas cartridges that keep the pressure positive - they are used in the petrochem industry and are akin to flameproofing by using pressure to stop volatile gases entering and potentially being ignited.






            share|improve this answer













            Here's what happened to a product I designed that was IP69K (Protection against powerful high temperature water jets). It was installed in China and failed after about a couple of years. When looked into there was about 1.5 inches of water slopping about. Seemingly a mystery.



            However, it turned out to be a progressive build up of humidity. Every night the product was turned-off and internally it started to cool over night. During that period the internal pressure lowered (because the internal air cooled) and it sucked-in high-humidity air from the surroundings. That settled out on top of the microscopic layer of water that was ingested the previous night. Gradually it built up until it reached a switch mode power supply then bang.



            The way we got out of this was selling the option of having a drain plug fitted and each order was processed with attention to that humidity problem.



            Silica gel will work but only has a limited lifespan before it needs to be replaced. A positive pressure inside will help - if it's sealed as good as you suggest you can buy slow leak gas cartridges that keep the pressure positive - they are used in the petrochem industry and are akin to flameproofing by using pressure to stop volatile gases entering and potentially being ignited.







            share|improve this answer













            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer











            answered Aug 1 at 17:27









            Andy aka

            225k9162374




            225k9162374







            • 5




              I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
              – jonk
              Aug 1 at 17:31






            • 6




              +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
              – Spehro Pefhany
              Aug 1 at 19:02







            • 10




              The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
              – Henry Crun
              Aug 1 at 21:01






            • 2




              For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago






            • 5




              @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago












            • 5




              I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
              – jonk
              Aug 1 at 17:31






            • 6




              +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
              – Spehro Pefhany
              Aug 1 at 19:02







            • 10




              The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
              – Henry Crun
              Aug 1 at 21:01






            • 2




              For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago






            • 5




              @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
              – Henry Crun
              2 days ago







            5




            5




            I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
            – jonk
            Aug 1 at 17:31




            I love the idea of a slow leak gas cartridge to maintain a slight positive pressure -- if it is possible to include an indicator when the cartridge is empty so that it can be replaced.
            – jonk
            Aug 1 at 17:31




            6




            6




            +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
            – Spehro Pefhany
            Aug 1 at 19:02





            +1 Great story from the trenches. @Transformer Our environmental chamber has a control humidity option using wet/dry bulb. Maybe you can simulate that by heating an open tray of water inside the chamber if the local isn't high enough (heating the air will reduce the RH).
            – Spehro Pefhany
            Aug 1 at 19:02





            10




            10




            The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
            – Henry Crun
            Aug 1 at 21:01




            The definition of waterproof is that the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole in the top.
            – Henry Crun
            Aug 1 at 21:01




            2




            2




            For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
            – Henry Crun
            2 days ago




            For testing it may require long hot cold cycles, as you are expecting moisture laden air to seep slowly past a seal. Each litre of air exchanged (which might take, say 100 cycles), only brings in a 3mm drop of water. 10 cycles over a couple of days isn't going to do it.
            – Henry Crun
            2 days ago




            5




            5




            @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
            – Henry Crun
            2 days ago




            @Andyaka Are you sure the "slow leak gas bottle" isn't something you send the apprentice for, along with striped paint and a long weight?
            – Henry Crun
            2 days ago












            up vote
            17
            down vote













            Andy exactly describes the mechanism I have also seen . Because of this I favor inverted bucket case designs which do not rely on seals, wherever possible. "The definition of waterproof is the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole on top"
            Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a ~3mm ball of water.



            I found scotch-brite pads to be a good breather vent and bug stopper for fixed equipment.



            I have also just cut a disc of Gortex raincoat fabric and siliconed it into the case. (on top of metal mesh if you have gnawing bugs). I did some transpiration experiments years ago testing the 6 different types of breathable fabrics that I could get. (silicon fabric onto top of cup of water, and leave in hot water cupboard). Genuine Goretex was more than 2x better than the clones at the time.



            There are specialist screw in and stick on breathers nowadays. (A lot smaller than the 1.5" Gortex patches I used though)



            Mounting the case at 10 degrees to horizontal results in the water pooling in the corner. It is good to plan for where the water will go. A small drain hole there will see the overpressure force liquid water out the drain hole during the day. Put a some type of wick in drain holes so water drops do drain down.



            A sunshade and/or white colour reduces the internal temperature, and therefore the overpressure that forces air out during the day (and thus sucks moisture in at night. As an aside, there is IR reflective paint that results in dark colors in the sun being 10degC cooler.



            In a recent datalogger design used in the splash zone on boats, I put a hygrometer chip in, just to know if water had leaked in.






            share|improve this answer



























              up vote
              17
              down vote













              Andy exactly describes the mechanism I have also seen . Because of this I favor inverted bucket case designs which do not rely on seals, wherever possible. "The definition of waterproof is the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole on top"
              Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a ~3mm ball of water.



              I found scotch-brite pads to be a good breather vent and bug stopper for fixed equipment.



              I have also just cut a disc of Gortex raincoat fabric and siliconed it into the case. (on top of metal mesh if you have gnawing bugs). I did some transpiration experiments years ago testing the 6 different types of breathable fabrics that I could get. (silicon fabric onto top of cup of water, and leave in hot water cupboard). Genuine Goretex was more than 2x better than the clones at the time.



              There are specialist screw in and stick on breathers nowadays. (A lot smaller than the 1.5" Gortex patches I used though)



              Mounting the case at 10 degrees to horizontal results in the water pooling in the corner. It is good to plan for where the water will go. A small drain hole there will see the overpressure force liquid water out the drain hole during the day. Put a some type of wick in drain holes so water drops do drain down.



              A sunshade and/or white colour reduces the internal temperature, and therefore the overpressure that forces air out during the day (and thus sucks moisture in at night. As an aside, there is IR reflective paint that results in dark colors in the sun being 10degC cooler.



              In a recent datalogger design used in the splash zone on boats, I put a hygrometer chip in, just to know if water had leaked in.






              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                17
                down vote










                up vote
                17
                down vote









                Andy exactly describes the mechanism I have also seen . Because of this I favor inverted bucket case designs which do not rely on seals, wherever possible. "The definition of waterproof is the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole on top"
                Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a ~3mm ball of water.



                I found scotch-brite pads to be a good breather vent and bug stopper for fixed equipment.



                I have also just cut a disc of Gortex raincoat fabric and siliconed it into the case. (on top of metal mesh if you have gnawing bugs). I did some transpiration experiments years ago testing the 6 different types of breathable fabrics that I could get. (silicon fabric onto top of cup of water, and leave in hot water cupboard). Genuine Goretex was more than 2x better than the clones at the time.



                There are specialist screw in and stick on breathers nowadays. (A lot smaller than the 1.5" Gortex patches I used though)



                Mounting the case at 10 degrees to horizontal results in the water pooling in the corner. It is good to plan for where the water will go. A small drain hole there will see the overpressure force liquid water out the drain hole during the day. Put a some type of wick in drain holes so water drops do drain down.



                A sunshade and/or white colour reduces the internal temperature, and therefore the overpressure that forces air out during the day (and thus sucks moisture in at night. As an aside, there is IR reflective paint that results in dark colors in the sun being 10degC cooler.



                In a recent datalogger design used in the splash zone on boats, I put a hygrometer chip in, just to know if water had leaked in.






                share|improve this answer















                Andy exactly describes the mechanism I have also seen . Because of this I favor inverted bucket case designs which do not rely on seals, wherever possible. "The definition of waterproof is the hole in the bottom is bigger than the hole on top"
                Note on "trapped humid air when box was closed" At 25C, there is 22g/m^3 of water, or 22mg if this is a 1L box. Thats a ~3mm ball of water.



                I found scotch-brite pads to be a good breather vent and bug stopper for fixed equipment.



                I have also just cut a disc of Gortex raincoat fabric and siliconed it into the case. (on top of metal mesh if you have gnawing bugs). I did some transpiration experiments years ago testing the 6 different types of breathable fabrics that I could get. (silicon fabric onto top of cup of water, and leave in hot water cupboard). Genuine Goretex was more than 2x better than the clones at the time.



                There are specialist screw in and stick on breathers nowadays. (A lot smaller than the 1.5" Gortex patches I used though)



                Mounting the case at 10 degrees to horizontal results in the water pooling in the corner. It is good to plan for where the water will go. A small drain hole there will see the overpressure force liquid water out the drain hole during the day. Put a some type of wick in drain holes so water drops do drain down.



                A sunshade and/or white colour reduces the internal temperature, and therefore the overpressure that forces air out during the day (and thus sucks moisture in at night. As an aside, there is IR reflective paint that results in dark colors in the sun being 10degC cooler.



                In a recent datalogger design used in the splash zone on boats, I put a hygrometer chip in, just to know if water had leaked in.







                share|improve this answer















                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 2 days ago


























                answered 2 days ago









                Henry Crun

                3,65249




                3,65249




















                    up vote
                    15
                    down vote













                    I once found water in a box like that installed INSIDE a house. I was baffled about where it could come from. Turns out the water wicked itself through the wire going into the box, coming from another (similar) box on the roof that was full of water. So basically the electrical wire was operating as a hose. I can't see very well on the picture you're providing, but if applicable, maybe investigate the possibility that water came in through the wiring? Even if the wires only come in from underneath, if the wire is going up, the pressure could force the water through the wiring.
                    Hope this helps.






                    share|improve this answer

























                      up vote
                      15
                      down vote













                      I once found water in a box like that installed INSIDE a house. I was baffled about where it could come from. Turns out the water wicked itself through the wire going into the box, coming from another (similar) box on the roof that was full of water. So basically the electrical wire was operating as a hose. I can't see very well on the picture you're providing, but if applicable, maybe investigate the possibility that water came in through the wiring? Even if the wires only come in from underneath, if the wire is going up, the pressure could force the water through the wiring.
                      Hope this helps.






                      share|improve this answer























                        up vote
                        15
                        down vote










                        up vote
                        15
                        down vote









                        I once found water in a box like that installed INSIDE a house. I was baffled about where it could come from. Turns out the water wicked itself through the wire going into the box, coming from another (similar) box on the roof that was full of water. So basically the electrical wire was operating as a hose. I can't see very well on the picture you're providing, but if applicable, maybe investigate the possibility that water came in through the wiring? Even if the wires only come in from underneath, if the wire is going up, the pressure could force the water through the wiring.
                        Hope this helps.






                        share|improve this answer













                        I once found water in a box like that installed INSIDE a house. I was baffled about where it could come from. Turns out the water wicked itself through the wire going into the box, coming from another (similar) box on the roof that was full of water. So basically the electrical wire was operating as a hose. I can't see very well on the picture you're providing, but if applicable, maybe investigate the possibility that water came in through the wiring? Even if the wires only come in from underneath, if the wire is going up, the pressure could force the water through the wiring.
                        Hope this helps.







                        share|improve this answer













                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer











                        answered 2 days ago









                        MartinF

                        3019




                        3019




















                            up vote
                            10
                            down vote













                            What you want is to prevent condensation from the thermal difference between the case and internal air. This depends on the relative humidity of the internal air to not exceed the dew point.



                            IP67 specifies prevent vapor pressure leaks submersed to 2~3m under water tested for >=1hr as per supplier specs.



                            IP66 only protects against external water spray and IP69 only protects against higher pressure water spray.



                            But neither can guarantee prevention of condensation if the RH of contained air is high.



                            Possible remedies



                            • power wire entry voids the IP66 rating so liquid rubber sealant is needed

                            • Epoxy Conformal spray to case interior

                            • PCB with ENIG pads or equivalent gold alloy.

                            • Conformally coated PCBA with mask for LEDs.

                            • Desiccant.

                              -Teflon gas plug

                            • internal heater (Hygrotherm)

                            • thermal insulation to case interior

                            The last suggestion requires measuring or calculating the need to conduct heat outside and prevent a temperature gradient on the inside inducing condensation above Dew Point.



                            The Dew Point drops with rising air pressure so allowing an H2 pressure leak with a Teflon plug still blocks Vapour Pressure of H2O.



                            Each of these solutions may cause new thermal problems if you need heat conduction, so this is a factor to consider.



                            • The neoprene gasket seal must be a smooth interface on the case to have a constant high pressure seal which may be a problem on aluminum castings.


                            • Testing should include rapid temperature cycling and monitoring internal condensation with condensation ink dots ( like those used in Apple products which change colour) and perhaps internal pressure.


                            • Avoiding Solar heating also helps if possible for reducing thermal shock.






                            share|improve this answer



























                              up vote
                              10
                              down vote













                              What you want is to prevent condensation from the thermal difference between the case and internal air. This depends on the relative humidity of the internal air to not exceed the dew point.



                              IP67 specifies prevent vapor pressure leaks submersed to 2~3m under water tested for >=1hr as per supplier specs.



                              IP66 only protects against external water spray and IP69 only protects against higher pressure water spray.



                              But neither can guarantee prevention of condensation if the RH of contained air is high.



                              Possible remedies



                              • power wire entry voids the IP66 rating so liquid rubber sealant is needed

                              • Epoxy Conformal spray to case interior

                              • PCB with ENIG pads or equivalent gold alloy.

                              • Conformally coated PCBA with mask for LEDs.

                              • Desiccant.

                                -Teflon gas plug

                              • internal heater (Hygrotherm)

                              • thermal insulation to case interior

                              The last suggestion requires measuring or calculating the need to conduct heat outside and prevent a temperature gradient on the inside inducing condensation above Dew Point.



                              The Dew Point drops with rising air pressure so allowing an H2 pressure leak with a Teflon plug still blocks Vapour Pressure of H2O.



                              Each of these solutions may cause new thermal problems if you need heat conduction, so this is a factor to consider.



                              • The neoprene gasket seal must be a smooth interface on the case to have a constant high pressure seal which may be a problem on aluminum castings.


                              • Testing should include rapid temperature cycling and monitoring internal condensation with condensation ink dots ( like those used in Apple products which change colour) and perhaps internal pressure.


                              • Avoiding Solar heating also helps if possible for reducing thermal shock.






                              share|improve this answer

























                                up vote
                                10
                                down vote










                                up vote
                                10
                                down vote









                                What you want is to prevent condensation from the thermal difference between the case and internal air. This depends on the relative humidity of the internal air to not exceed the dew point.



                                IP67 specifies prevent vapor pressure leaks submersed to 2~3m under water tested for >=1hr as per supplier specs.



                                IP66 only protects against external water spray and IP69 only protects against higher pressure water spray.



                                But neither can guarantee prevention of condensation if the RH of contained air is high.



                                Possible remedies



                                • power wire entry voids the IP66 rating so liquid rubber sealant is needed

                                • Epoxy Conformal spray to case interior

                                • PCB with ENIG pads or equivalent gold alloy.

                                • Conformally coated PCBA with mask for LEDs.

                                • Desiccant.

                                  -Teflon gas plug

                                • internal heater (Hygrotherm)

                                • thermal insulation to case interior

                                The last suggestion requires measuring or calculating the need to conduct heat outside and prevent a temperature gradient on the inside inducing condensation above Dew Point.



                                The Dew Point drops with rising air pressure so allowing an H2 pressure leak with a Teflon plug still blocks Vapour Pressure of H2O.



                                Each of these solutions may cause new thermal problems if you need heat conduction, so this is a factor to consider.



                                • The neoprene gasket seal must be a smooth interface on the case to have a constant high pressure seal which may be a problem on aluminum castings.


                                • Testing should include rapid temperature cycling and monitoring internal condensation with condensation ink dots ( like those used in Apple products which change colour) and perhaps internal pressure.


                                • Avoiding Solar heating also helps if possible for reducing thermal shock.






                                share|improve this answer















                                What you want is to prevent condensation from the thermal difference between the case and internal air. This depends on the relative humidity of the internal air to not exceed the dew point.



                                IP67 specifies prevent vapor pressure leaks submersed to 2~3m under water tested for >=1hr as per supplier specs.



                                IP66 only protects against external water spray and IP69 only protects against higher pressure water spray.



                                But neither can guarantee prevention of condensation if the RH of contained air is high.



                                Possible remedies



                                • power wire entry voids the IP66 rating so liquid rubber sealant is needed

                                • Epoxy Conformal spray to case interior

                                • PCB with ENIG pads or equivalent gold alloy.

                                • Conformally coated PCBA with mask for LEDs.

                                • Desiccant.

                                  -Teflon gas plug

                                • internal heater (Hygrotherm)

                                • thermal insulation to case interior

                                The last suggestion requires measuring or calculating the need to conduct heat outside and prevent a temperature gradient on the inside inducing condensation above Dew Point.



                                The Dew Point drops with rising air pressure so allowing an H2 pressure leak with a Teflon plug still blocks Vapour Pressure of H2O.



                                Each of these solutions may cause new thermal problems if you need heat conduction, so this is a factor to consider.



                                • The neoprene gasket seal must be a smooth interface on the case to have a constant high pressure seal which may be a problem on aluminum castings.


                                • Testing should include rapid temperature cycling and monitoring internal condensation with condensation ink dots ( like those used in Apple products which change colour) and perhaps internal pressure.


                                • Avoiding Solar heating also helps if possible for reducing thermal shock.







                                share|improve this answer















                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited Aug 1 at 18:45


























                                answered Aug 1 at 18:40









                                Tony EE rocketscientist

                                55.2k22082




                                55.2k22082




















                                    up vote
                                    3
                                    down vote













                                    As long as ambient air can reach the area changes in weather will cause condensation when the air is humid and the metal is cold.
                                    The same problem can happen in houses that don't have good vapor barrier protection in the walls- protecting the inside of the perimeter walls from the humid air the can come from living inside a house where bathing, cooking, breathing occurs. When the vapor barrier is inadequate to the point where humid air can penetrate the cold outside/perimeter wall if there is not something to fill the wall space- insulation, the humid air will condense on the wall and can cause ice dams, moisture collection and ultimately rot.

                                    In looking at your problem from this perspective, air sealing the enclosure and filling it with insulation is my answer.






                                    share|improve this answer





















                                    • I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
                                      – WhatRoughBeast
                                      2 days ago






                                    • 1




                                      Moisture + cold = ice.
                                      – Sam Williams
                                      yesterday






                                    • 1




                                      @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
                                      – Henry Crun
                                      yesterday















                                    up vote
                                    3
                                    down vote













                                    As long as ambient air can reach the area changes in weather will cause condensation when the air is humid and the metal is cold.
                                    The same problem can happen in houses that don't have good vapor barrier protection in the walls- protecting the inside of the perimeter walls from the humid air the can come from living inside a house where bathing, cooking, breathing occurs. When the vapor barrier is inadequate to the point where humid air can penetrate the cold outside/perimeter wall if there is not something to fill the wall space- insulation, the humid air will condense on the wall and can cause ice dams, moisture collection and ultimately rot.

                                    In looking at your problem from this perspective, air sealing the enclosure and filling it with insulation is my answer.






                                    share|improve this answer





















                                    • I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
                                      – WhatRoughBeast
                                      2 days ago






                                    • 1




                                      Moisture + cold = ice.
                                      – Sam Williams
                                      yesterday






                                    • 1




                                      @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
                                      – Henry Crun
                                      yesterday













                                    up vote
                                    3
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    3
                                    down vote









                                    As long as ambient air can reach the area changes in weather will cause condensation when the air is humid and the metal is cold.
                                    The same problem can happen in houses that don't have good vapor barrier protection in the walls- protecting the inside of the perimeter walls from the humid air the can come from living inside a house where bathing, cooking, breathing occurs. When the vapor barrier is inadequate to the point where humid air can penetrate the cold outside/perimeter wall if there is not something to fill the wall space- insulation, the humid air will condense on the wall and can cause ice dams, moisture collection and ultimately rot.

                                    In looking at your problem from this perspective, air sealing the enclosure and filling it with insulation is my answer.






                                    share|improve this answer













                                    As long as ambient air can reach the area changes in weather will cause condensation when the air is humid and the metal is cold.
                                    The same problem can happen in houses that don't have good vapor barrier protection in the walls- protecting the inside of the perimeter walls from the humid air the can come from living inside a house where bathing, cooking, breathing occurs. When the vapor barrier is inadequate to the point where humid air can penetrate the cold outside/perimeter wall if there is not something to fill the wall space- insulation, the humid air will condense on the wall and can cause ice dams, moisture collection and ultimately rot.

                                    In looking at your problem from this perspective, air sealing the enclosure and filling it with insulation is my answer.







                                    share|improve this answer













                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer











                                    answered 2 days ago









                                    Sam Williams

                                    311




                                    311











                                    • I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
                                      – WhatRoughBeast
                                      2 days ago






                                    • 1




                                      Moisture + cold = ice.
                                      – Sam Williams
                                      yesterday






                                    • 1




                                      @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
                                      – Henry Crun
                                      yesterday

















                                    • I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
                                      – WhatRoughBeast
                                      2 days ago






                                    • 1




                                      Moisture + cold = ice.
                                      – Sam Williams
                                      yesterday






                                    • 1




                                      @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
                                      – Henry Crun
                                      yesterday
















                                    I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
                                    – WhatRoughBeast
                                    2 days ago




                                    I've never heard of condensation causing ice dams, and frankly I don't see how the idea makes much sense.
                                    – WhatRoughBeast
                                    2 days ago




                                    1




                                    1




                                    Moisture + cold = ice.
                                    – Sam Williams
                                    yesterday




                                    Moisture + cold = ice.
                                    – Sam Williams
                                    yesterday




                                    1




                                    1




                                    @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
                                    – Henry Crun
                                    yesterday





                                    @WhatRoughBeast Just another part of life in Calgary that doesn't make too much sense to the rest of us. Like plugging your car in at night, and it's not electric! Whats with that?
                                    – Henry Crun
                                    yesterday











                                    up vote
                                    3
                                    down vote













                                    I've observed, learned from (the hard way), and later protected from this phenomenon on a number of outdoor products. You can also see a similar effect if the enclosure becomes very hot (e.g. direct daytime sun) and then experiences a cold rain shower. The rapid temperature change cancreate a negative pressure capable of sucking water in right through NEMA 4X (hosedown) rated seals.



                                    If you want to maintain your ingress protection rating while allowing for the exchange of air, you can use the product we ended up selecting, a breathable-membrane sealed vent from Gore:
                                    https://www.gore.com/products/categories/venting?view=protective-vents-for-outdoor-electronics






                                    share|improve this answer

























                                      up vote
                                      3
                                      down vote













                                      I've observed, learned from (the hard way), and later protected from this phenomenon on a number of outdoor products. You can also see a similar effect if the enclosure becomes very hot (e.g. direct daytime sun) and then experiences a cold rain shower. The rapid temperature change cancreate a negative pressure capable of sucking water in right through NEMA 4X (hosedown) rated seals.



                                      If you want to maintain your ingress protection rating while allowing for the exchange of air, you can use the product we ended up selecting, a breathable-membrane sealed vent from Gore:
                                      https://www.gore.com/products/categories/venting?view=protective-vents-for-outdoor-electronics






                                      share|improve this answer























                                        up vote
                                        3
                                        down vote










                                        up vote
                                        3
                                        down vote









                                        I've observed, learned from (the hard way), and later protected from this phenomenon on a number of outdoor products. You can also see a similar effect if the enclosure becomes very hot (e.g. direct daytime sun) and then experiences a cold rain shower. The rapid temperature change cancreate a negative pressure capable of sucking water in right through NEMA 4X (hosedown) rated seals.



                                        If you want to maintain your ingress protection rating while allowing for the exchange of air, you can use the product we ended up selecting, a breathable-membrane sealed vent from Gore:
                                        https://www.gore.com/products/categories/venting?view=protective-vents-for-outdoor-electronics






                                        share|improve this answer













                                        I've observed, learned from (the hard way), and later protected from this phenomenon on a number of outdoor products. You can also see a similar effect if the enclosure becomes very hot (e.g. direct daytime sun) and then experiences a cold rain shower. The rapid temperature change cancreate a negative pressure capable of sucking water in right through NEMA 4X (hosedown) rated seals.



                                        If you want to maintain your ingress protection rating while allowing for the exchange of air, you can use the product we ended up selecting, a breathable-membrane sealed vent from Gore:
                                        https://www.gore.com/products/categories/venting?view=protective-vents-for-outdoor-electronics







                                        share|improve this answer













                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer











                                        answered 2 days ago









                                        EnemyBagJones

                                        1311




                                        1311




















                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote













                                            You are already in the right direction. That happened also to us in a completely sealed product we designed.



                                            Just to add a graphic description of what the other people are describing, check this video:
                                            https://www.bopla.de/en/service/technical-information/pressure-compensation-elements.html






                                            share|improve this answer





















                                            • :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
                                              – Transformer
                                              2 days ago














                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote













                                            You are already in the right direction. That happened also to us in a completely sealed product we designed.



                                            Just to add a graphic description of what the other people are describing, check this video:
                                            https://www.bopla.de/en/service/technical-information/pressure-compensation-elements.html






                                            share|improve this answer





















                                            • :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
                                              – Transformer
                                              2 days ago












                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote










                                            up vote
                                            2
                                            down vote









                                            You are already in the right direction. That happened also to us in a completely sealed product we designed.



                                            Just to add a graphic description of what the other people are describing, check this video:
                                            https://www.bopla.de/en/service/technical-information/pressure-compensation-elements.html






                                            share|improve this answer













                                            You are already in the right direction. That happened also to us in a completely sealed product we designed.



                                            Just to add a graphic description of what the other people are describing, check this video:
                                            https://www.bopla.de/en/service/technical-information/pressure-compensation-elements.html







                                            share|improve this answer













                                            share|improve this answer



                                            share|improve this answer











                                            answered 2 days ago









                                            Marcos

                                            464




                                            464











                                            • :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
                                              – Transformer
                                              2 days ago
















                                            • :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
                                              – Transformer
                                              2 days ago















                                            :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
                                            – Transformer
                                            2 days ago




                                            :- Thanks , i saw this video, one think i do not understand after test why i saw water in one unit which does not have vent, what physics behind this, is it pressure build up which sucks the water.
                                            – Transformer
                                            2 days ago










                                            up vote
                                            1
                                            down vote













                                            Search for something "to avoid accumulation of water" like from Rittal:




                                            Product – System accessories – Base – To avoid accumulation of water:



                                            • Pressure relief stoppers ...


                                            • Condensate discharge for reliable discharge from the inside ...







                                            share|improve this answer

























                                              up vote
                                              1
                                              down vote













                                              Search for something "to avoid accumulation of water" like from Rittal:




                                              Product – System accessories – Base – To avoid accumulation of water:



                                              • Pressure relief stoppers ...


                                              • Condensate discharge for reliable discharge from the inside ...







                                              share|improve this answer























                                                up vote
                                                1
                                                down vote










                                                up vote
                                                1
                                                down vote









                                                Search for something "to avoid accumulation of water" like from Rittal:




                                                Product – System accessories – Base – To avoid accumulation of water:



                                                • Pressure relief stoppers ...


                                                • Condensate discharge for reliable discharge from the inside ...







                                                share|improve this answer













                                                Search for something "to avoid accumulation of water" like from Rittal:




                                                Product – System accessories – Base – To avoid accumulation of water:



                                                • Pressure relief stoppers ...


                                                • Condensate discharge for reliable discharge from the inside ...








                                                share|improve this answer













                                                share|improve this answer



                                                share|improve this answer











                                                answered yesterday









                                                alex

                                                211




                                                211






















                                                     

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