A linear algebra problem in positive characteristic

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Let $A$ be a symmetric square matrix with entries in $mathbbZ/pmathbbZ$ for a prime $p$ such that all of its diagonal entries are nonzero. Does there exists always a vector $x$ with all coordinates nonzero in the image of $A$? (this is true for $p=2$, but I don't know the answer for other values of $p$)
linear-algebra matrices characteristic-p
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up vote
17
down vote
favorite
Let $A$ be a symmetric square matrix with entries in $mathbbZ/pmathbbZ$ for a prime $p$ such that all of its diagonal entries are nonzero. Does there exists always a vector $x$ with all coordinates nonzero in the image of $A$? (this is true for $p=2$, but I don't know the answer for other values of $p$)
linear-algebra matrices characteristic-p
7
I suppose you mean "with all coordinates non-zero"?
â Geoff Robinson
Aug 7 at 16:13
@GeoffRobinson Yes, I edited the question.
â Mostafa
Aug 7 at 19:34
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
Let $A$ be a symmetric square matrix with entries in $mathbbZ/pmathbbZ$ for a prime $p$ such that all of its diagonal entries are nonzero. Does there exists always a vector $x$ with all coordinates nonzero in the image of $A$? (this is true for $p=2$, but I don't know the answer for other values of $p$)
linear-algebra matrices characteristic-p
Let $A$ be a symmetric square matrix with entries in $mathbbZ/pmathbbZ$ for a prime $p$ such that all of its diagonal entries are nonzero. Does there exists always a vector $x$ with all coordinates nonzero in the image of $A$? (this is true for $p=2$, but I don't know the answer for other values of $p$)
linear-algebra matrices characteristic-p
edited Aug 7 at 19:35
asked Aug 7 at 15:17
Mostafa
1,93511126
1,93511126
7
I suppose you mean "with all coordinates non-zero"?
â Geoff Robinson
Aug 7 at 16:13
@GeoffRobinson Yes, I edited the question.
â Mostafa
Aug 7 at 19:34
add a comment |Â
7
I suppose you mean "with all coordinates non-zero"?
â Geoff Robinson
Aug 7 at 16:13
@GeoffRobinson Yes, I edited the question.
â Mostafa
Aug 7 at 19:34
7
7
I suppose you mean "with all coordinates non-zero"?
â Geoff Robinson
Aug 7 at 16:13
I suppose you mean "with all coordinates non-zero"?
â Geoff Robinson
Aug 7 at 16:13
@GeoffRobinson Yes, I edited the question.
â Mostafa
Aug 7 at 19:34
@GeoffRobinson Yes, I edited the question.
â Mostafa
Aug 7 at 19:34
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
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up vote
28
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accepted
This is false. Let $c$ be a quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$. Our matrix will be $(p^2-1) times (p^2-1)$, with rows and colums indexed by pairs $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $.
Our matrix is defined by
$$A_(x_1,y_1) (x_2, y_2) = x_1 x_2 - c y_1 y_2.$$
This is obviously symmetric. Since $c$ is a nonresidue, we have $x^2-cy^2 neq 0$ for $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $, so the diagonal entries are nonzero.
Each column of this matrix is a linear function of $(x,y)$. So every vector in the image of this matrix is a linear function $mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) longrightarrow mathbbF_p$ and, hence, takes the value $0$ somewhere.
We could make a smaller $(p+1) times (p+1)$ example by just taking one point $(x,y)$ on each line through $0$ in $mathbbF_p^2$.
Moreover, I claim that $(p+1) times (p+1)$ is optimal. In other words, if $A$ is an $n times n$ matrix with $n leq p$ and nonzero entries on the diagonal, then some vector in the image of $A$ has all coordinates nonzero. Interestingly, I don't need the symmetry hypothesis.
Let $W$ be the image of $A$. Note that $W$ is not contained in any of the coordinate hyperplanes.
Let $vecu= (u_1, u_2, ldots, u_n)$, among all elements of $W$, have the fewest $0$ entries. Suppose for the sake of contradiction that some $u_i$ is $0$. Then there is some other $vecv$ in $W$ with $v_i neq 0$. Consider the points $(u_j : v_j)$ in $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ as $j$ ranges over all indices where $(u_j, v_j) neq (0,0)$. There are fewer then $p+1$ such $j$, so some point of $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ is not hit, call it $(a:b)$. Then $-b vecu + a vecv$ is in $W$ and has fewer nonzero entries than $vecu$, a contradiction.
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
1
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
1
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
1
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
 |Â
show 11 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
This is false. Let $c$ be a quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$. Our matrix will be $(p^2-1) times (p^2-1)$, with rows and colums indexed by pairs $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $.
Our matrix is defined by
$$A_(x_1,y_1) (x_2, y_2) = x_1 x_2 - c y_1 y_2.$$
This is obviously symmetric. Since $c$ is a nonresidue, we have $x^2-cy^2 neq 0$ for $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $, so the diagonal entries are nonzero.
Each column of this matrix is a linear function of $(x,y)$. So every vector in the image of this matrix is a linear function $mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) longrightarrow mathbbF_p$ and, hence, takes the value $0$ somewhere.
We could make a smaller $(p+1) times (p+1)$ example by just taking one point $(x,y)$ on each line through $0$ in $mathbbF_p^2$.
Moreover, I claim that $(p+1) times (p+1)$ is optimal. In other words, if $A$ is an $n times n$ matrix with $n leq p$ and nonzero entries on the diagonal, then some vector in the image of $A$ has all coordinates nonzero. Interestingly, I don't need the symmetry hypothesis.
Let $W$ be the image of $A$. Note that $W$ is not contained in any of the coordinate hyperplanes.
Let $vecu= (u_1, u_2, ldots, u_n)$, among all elements of $W$, have the fewest $0$ entries. Suppose for the sake of contradiction that some $u_i$ is $0$. Then there is some other $vecv$ in $W$ with $v_i neq 0$. Consider the points $(u_j : v_j)$ in $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ as $j$ ranges over all indices where $(u_j, v_j) neq (0,0)$. There are fewer then $p+1$ such $j$, so some point of $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ is not hit, call it $(a:b)$. Then $-b vecu + a vecv$ is in $W$ and has fewer nonzero entries than $vecu$, a contradiction.
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
1
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
1
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
1
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
 |Â
show 11 more comments
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
This is false. Let $c$ be a quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$. Our matrix will be $(p^2-1) times (p^2-1)$, with rows and colums indexed by pairs $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $.
Our matrix is defined by
$$A_(x_1,y_1) (x_2, y_2) = x_1 x_2 - c y_1 y_2.$$
This is obviously symmetric. Since $c$ is a nonresidue, we have $x^2-cy^2 neq 0$ for $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $, so the diagonal entries are nonzero.
Each column of this matrix is a linear function of $(x,y)$. So every vector in the image of this matrix is a linear function $mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) longrightarrow mathbbF_p$ and, hence, takes the value $0$ somewhere.
We could make a smaller $(p+1) times (p+1)$ example by just taking one point $(x,y)$ on each line through $0$ in $mathbbF_p^2$.
Moreover, I claim that $(p+1) times (p+1)$ is optimal. In other words, if $A$ is an $n times n$ matrix with $n leq p$ and nonzero entries on the diagonal, then some vector in the image of $A$ has all coordinates nonzero. Interestingly, I don't need the symmetry hypothesis.
Let $W$ be the image of $A$. Note that $W$ is not contained in any of the coordinate hyperplanes.
Let $vecu= (u_1, u_2, ldots, u_n)$, among all elements of $W$, have the fewest $0$ entries. Suppose for the sake of contradiction that some $u_i$ is $0$. Then there is some other $vecv$ in $W$ with $v_i neq 0$. Consider the points $(u_j : v_j)$ in $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ as $j$ ranges over all indices where $(u_j, v_j) neq (0,0)$. There are fewer then $p+1$ such $j$, so some point of $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ is not hit, call it $(a:b)$. Then $-b vecu + a vecv$ is in $W$ and has fewer nonzero entries than $vecu$, a contradiction.
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
1
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
1
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
1
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
 |Â
show 11 more comments
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
This is false. Let $c$ be a quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$. Our matrix will be $(p^2-1) times (p^2-1)$, with rows and colums indexed by pairs $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $.
Our matrix is defined by
$$A_(x_1,y_1) (x_2, y_2) = x_1 x_2 - c y_1 y_2.$$
This is obviously symmetric. Since $c$ is a nonresidue, we have $x^2-cy^2 neq 0$ for $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $, so the diagonal entries are nonzero.
Each column of this matrix is a linear function of $(x,y)$. So every vector in the image of this matrix is a linear function $mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) longrightarrow mathbbF_p$ and, hence, takes the value $0$ somewhere.
We could make a smaller $(p+1) times (p+1)$ example by just taking one point $(x,y)$ on each line through $0$ in $mathbbF_p^2$.
Moreover, I claim that $(p+1) times (p+1)$ is optimal. In other words, if $A$ is an $n times n$ matrix with $n leq p$ and nonzero entries on the diagonal, then some vector in the image of $A$ has all coordinates nonzero. Interestingly, I don't need the symmetry hypothesis.
Let $W$ be the image of $A$. Note that $W$ is not contained in any of the coordinate hyperplanes.
Let $vecu= (u_1, u_2, ldots, u_n)$, among all elements of $W$, have the fewest $0$ entries. Suppose for the sake of contradiction that some $u_i$ is $0$. Then there is some other $vecv$ in $W$ with $v_i neq 0$. Consider the points $(u_j : v_j)$ in $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ as $j$ ranges over all indices where $(u_j, v_j) neq (0,0)$. There are fewer then $p+1$ such $j$, so some point of $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ is not hit, call it $(a:b)$. Then $-b vecu + a vecv$ is in $W$ and has fewer nonzero entries than $vecu$, a contradiction.
This is false. Let $c$ be a quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$. Our matrix will be $(p^2-1) times (p^2-1)$, with rows and colums indexed by pairs $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $.
Our matrix is defined by
$$A_(x_1,y_1) (x_2, y_2) = x_1 x_2 - c y_1 y_2.$$
This is obviously symmetric. Since $c$ is a nonresidue, we have $x^2-cy^2 neq 0$ for $(x,y) in mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) $, so the diagonal entries are nonzero.
Each column of this matrix is a linear function of $(x,y)$. So every vector in the image of this matrix is a linear function $mathbbF_p^2 setminus (0,0) longrightarrow mathbbF_p$ and, hence, takes the value $0$ somewhere.
We could make a smaller $(p+1) times (p+1)$ example by just taking one point $(x,y)$ on each line through $0$ in $mathbbF_p^2$.
Moreover, I claim that $(p+1) times (p+1)$ is optimal. In other words, if $A$ is an $n times n$ matrix with $n leq p$ and nonzero entries on the diagonal, then some vector in the image of $A$ has all coordinates nonzero. Interestingly, I don't need the symmetry hypothesis.
Let $W$ be the image of $A$. Note that $W$ is not contained in any of the coordinate hyperplanes.
Let $vecu= (u_1, u_2, ldots, u_n)$, among all elements of $W$, have the fewest $0$ entries. Suppose for the sake of contradiction that some $u_i$ is $0$. Then there is some other $vecv$ in $W$ with $v_i neq 0$. Consider the points $(u_j : v_j)$ in $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ as $j$ ranges over all indices where $(u_j, v_j) neq (0,0)$. There are fewer then $p+1$ such $j$, so some point of $mathbbP^1(mathbbF_p)$ is not hit, call it $(a:b)$. Then $-b vecu + a vecv$ is in $W$ and has fewer nonzero entries than $vecu$, a contradiction.
edited Aug 7 at 23:49
answered Aug 7 at 16:17
David E Speyer
103k8260524
103k8260524
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
1
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
1
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
1
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
 |Â
show 11 more comments
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
1
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
1
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
1
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
This is a beautiful answer, and especially great because it works for any $p > 2$.
â R. van Dobben de Bruyn
Aug 7 at 17:22
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
It makes me curious whether there are counterexample matrices of size $leq p$, though.
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 18:25
1
1
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
I am getting the impression that a Combinatorial Nullstellensatz / Chevalley-Warning argument could work here; any ideas?
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:11
1
1
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
Ah, it's easier than that. Assume that no row of $A$ is $0$. (This is weaker than assuming that no diagonal entry of $A$ is $0$.) Consider the homogeneous polynomial $P = prodlimits_i=1^n left(sumlimits_j=1^n a_i,j X_jright) in mathbbF_pleft[X_1, X_2, ldots, X_nright]$. Then, $P neq 0$. But the degree $deg P = n leq p$ of $P$ is small enough that homogeneous polynomials still behave like polynomial functions in this degree (indeed, they do it all the way until degree $p+1$); thus, $P neq 0$ as a polynomial function too. In other words, there exists ...
â darij grinberg
Aug 7 at 19:21
1
1
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
The second part also follows by simply counting: the condition that $(Ax)_jnot= 0$ rules out $p^n-1$ vectors, so after considering all conditions, we have at least $p^n-np^n-1$ vectors left, which is $ge 0$ if $nle p$ (and of course there's overlap, so $n=p$ is fine too).
â Christian Remling
Aug 9 at 15:09
 |Â
show 11 more comments
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7
I suppose you mean "with all coordinates non-zero"?
â Geoff Robinson
Aug 7 at 16:13
@GeoffRobinson Yes, I edited the question.
â Mostafa
Aug 7 at 19:34