Why have Canonical installed core Gnome apps as Snaps by default?

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Today I removed snapd, which also removed gnome-software-plugins-snap by default. What I didn't notice is that Gnome System Monitor also was removed afterwards. On further inspection there seem to be a host of other applications that are snaps by default:



 Desktop snaps
* snap:gnome-3-26-1604
* snap:gnome-calculator
* snap:gnome-characters
* snap:gnome-logs
* snap:gnome-system-monitor
* snap:gtk-common-themes


Ref: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic/view/head:/desktop



These are also common/core Gnome apps, so I honestly don't understand or like the fact that these are installed as Snaps.



I've noticed that the Gnome System Monitor wasn't respecting my theme selection and was also slow to launch.



To quote a user on Reddit:




I really do not see the point in using a snap, if the same
program/version is the normal repository. unless it is some of theme
or support snap that other snaps use. I think that is the workaround
for snaps not following themes.



i find it weird that gnome-system-monitor is a snap.
https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/gnome-shell-system-monitor-applet/issues/452



but it seems to be.



some info on it.



https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8krkam/system_monitor_on_1804_is_a_snap_by_default/




Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8ls0m1/ubuntu_without_snapd/dzipp9c



Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs and launchpad for changes?







share|improve this question
























    up vote
    4
    down vote

    favorite
    2












    Today I removed snapd, which also removed gnome-software-plugins-snap by default. What I didn't notice is that Gnome System Monitor also was removed afterwards. On further inspection there seem to be a host of other applications that are snaps by default:



     Desktop snaps
    * snap:gnome-3-26-1604
    * snap:gnome-calculator
    * snap:gnome-characters
    * snap:gnome-logs
    * snap:gnome-system-monitor
    * snap:gtk-common-themes


    Ref: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic/view/head:/desktop



    These are also common/core Gnome apps, so I honestly don't understand or like the fact that these are installed as Snaps.



    I've noticed that the Gnome System Monitor wasn't respecting my theme selection and was also slow to launch.



    To quote a user on Reddit:




    I really do not see the point in using a snap, if the same
    program/version is the normal repository. unless it is some of theme
    or support snap that other snaps use. I think that is the workaround
    for snaps not following themes.



    i find it weird that gnome-system-monitor is a snap.
    https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/gnome-shell-system-monitor-applet/issues/452



    but it seems to be.



    some info on it.



    https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8krkam/system_monitor_on_1804_is_a_snap_by_default/




    Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8ls0m1/ubuntu_without_snapd/dzipp9c



    Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs and launchpad for changes?







    share|improve this question






















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      Today I removed snapd, which also removed gnome-software-plugins-snap by default. What I didn't notice is that Gnome System Monitor also was removed afterwards. On further inspection there seem to be a host of other applications that are snaps by default:



       Desktop snaps
      * snap:gnome-3-26-1604
      * snap:gnome-calculator
      * snap:gnome-characters
      * snap:gnome-logs
      * snap:gnome-system-monitor
      * snap:gtk-common-themes


      Ref: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic/view/head:/desktop



      These are also common/core Gnome apps, so I honestly don't understand or like the fact that these are installed as Snaps.



      I've noticed that the Gnome System Monitor wasn't respecting my theme selection and was also slow to launch.



      To quote a user on Reddit:




      I really do not see the point in using a snap, if the same
      program/version is the normal repository. unless it is some of theme
      or support snap that other snaps use. I think that is the workaround
      for snaps not following themes.



      i find it weird that gnome-system-monitor is a snap.
      https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/gnome-shell-system-monitor-applet/issues/452



      but it seems to be.



      some info on it.



      https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8krkam/system_monitor_on_1804_is_a_snap_by_default/




      Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8ls0m1/ubuntu_without_snapd/dzipp9c



      Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs and launchpad for changes?







      share|improve this question












      Today I removed snapd, which also removed gnome-software-plugins-snap by default. What I didn't notice is that Gnome System Monitor also was removed afterwards. On further inspection there seem to be a host of other applications that are snaps by default:



       Desktop snaps
      * snap:gnome-3-26-1604
      * snap:gnome-calculator
      * snap:gnome-characters
      * snap:gnome-logs
      * snap:gnome-system-monitor
      * snap:gtk-common-themes


      Ref: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.bionic/view/head:/desktop



      These are also common/core Gnome apps, so I honestly don't understand or like the fact that these are installed as Snaps.



      I've noticed that the Gnome System Monitor wasn't respecting my theme selection and was also slow to launch.



      To quote a user on Reddit:




      I really do not see the point in using a snap, if the same
      program/version is the normal repository. unless it is some of theme
      or support snap that other snaps use. I think that is the workaround
      for snaps not following themes.



      i find it weird that gnome-system-monitor is a snap.
      https://github.com/paradoxxxzero/gnome-shell-system-monitor-applet/issues/452



      but it seems to be.



      some info on it.



      https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8krkam/system_monitor_on_1804_is_a_snap_by_default/




      Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/8ls0m1/ubuntu_without_snapd/dzipp9c



      Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs and launchpad for changes?









      share|improve this question











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      share|improve this question










      asked May 24 at 20:19









      Nader Nooryani

      262




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          Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the
          users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs
          and launchpad for changes?




          This was discussed online a lot over the last 5 months or so. Many news outlets covered it, including Phoronix and OMGUbuntu. We don't expect everyone to keep up with all the technical details of how Ubuntu is built. This is why we publish Release Notes which says




          "Some utilities have been switched to the snap format for new
          installs (Calculator, Characters, Logs, and System Monitor). Snap apps
          provide better isolation which allows them to be upgraded to new
          stable releases during the LTS lifecycle. "




          In addition, for many, the switch from deb to snap is largely irrelevant technical detail. It would be (for many) like the switch from Upstart to SystemD. A technical thing that matters to people who care, but the vast majority it doesn't matter.



          I also commented on the further point of why things are delivered as snaps on the linked reddit thread, but am reproducing here in case the comment disappears.




          When the LTS has just come out and most of the apps in the archive are
          at similar release numbers to those in the snap store, sure, it may be
          perplexing.



          However, take into considering those people who are still running
          14.04, a 4 year old release. When 14.04 came out everything in the archive was new and fresh. Cut forward 4 years and now a lot of that
          software is old. The same will be true for 18.04 users in the year
          2022.



          While it's true some people will upgrade to the next LTS, and many
          people did upgrade to 16.04. Not everyone does. We have a significant
          chunk of users who stick on older LTS releases. What we're doing with
          snaps is planting a seed for a tree that will grow in a year or so.
          Making sure that people who install the LTS can know they will get
          updates to software long into the future, and not be 'forced' to
          upgrade to the next LTS or interim release just to get the latest
          video player, utility or productivity application.



          With 18.04, this was the first release where we pre-installed some
          snaps. This was partly to test the process, likely more apps will
          switch to being snaps in the future.



          Now, all that said, snaps aren't perfect. Sometimes they can be slow
          to start, and the theming isn't right in all cases. We're working to
          fix these issues. I would strongly recommend if you have specific
          actionable feedback for the snap team, you take it to the forum where the developers hang out. https://forum.snapcraft.io/. The
          developers don't sit on Reddit all day (I do though ;) ) and need to
          hear these issues from users. We appreciate the feedback.







          share|improve this answer




















          • Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
            – Nader Nooryani
            May 25 at 12:05










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          up vote
          4
          down vote














          Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the
          users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs
          and launchpad for changes?




          This was discussed online a lot over the last 5 months or so. Many news outlets covered it, including Phoronix and OMGUbuntu. We don't expect everyone to keep up with all the technical details of how Ubuntu is built. This is why we publish Release Notes which says




          "Some utilities have been switched to the snap format for new
          installs (Calculator, Characters, Logs, and System Monitor). Snap apps
          provide better isolation which allows them to be upgraded to new
          stable releases during the LTS lifecycle. "




          In addition, for many, the switch from deb to snap is largely irrelevant technical detail. It would be (for many) like the switch from Upstart to SystemD. A technical thing that matters to people who care, but the vast majority it doesn't matter.



          I also commented on the further point of why things are delivered as snaps on the linked reddit thread, but am reproducing here in case the comment disappears.




          When the LTS has just come out and most of the apps in the archive are
          at similar release numbers to those in the snap store, sure, it may be
          perplexing.



          However, take into considering those people who are still running
          14.04, a 4 year old release. When 14.04 came out everything in the archive was new and fresh. Cut forward 4 years and now a lot of that
          software is old. The same will be true for 18.04 users in the year
          2022.



          While it's true some people will upgrade to the next LTS, and many
          people did upgrade to 16.04. Not everyone does. We have a significant
          chunk of users who stick on older LTS releases. What we're doing with
          snaps is planting a seed for a tree that will grow in a year or so.
          Making sure that people who install the LTS can know they will get
          updates to software long into the future, and not be 'forced' to
          upgrade to the next LTS or interim release just to get the latest
          video player, utility or productivity application.



          With 18.04, this was the first release where we pre-installed some
          snaps. This was partly to test the process, likely more apps will
          switch to being snaps in the future.



          Now, all that said, snaps aren't perfect. Sometimes they can be slow
          to start, and the theming isn't right in all cases. We're working to
          fix these issues. I would strongly recommend if you have specific
          actionable feedback for the snap team, you take it to the forum where the developers hang out. https://forum.snapcraft.io/. The
          developers don't sit on Reddit all day (I do though ;) ) and need to
          hear these issues from users. We appreciate the feedback.







          share|improve this answer




















          • Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
            – Nader Nooryani
            May 25 at 12:05














          up vote
          4
          down vote














          Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the
          users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs
          and launchpad for changes?




          This was discussed online a lot over the last 5 months or so. Many news outlets covered it, including Phoronix and OMGUbuntu. We don't expect everyone to keep up with all the technical details of how Ubuntu is built. This is why we publish Release Notes which says




          "Some utilities have been switched to the snap format for new
          installs (Calculator, Characters, Logs, and System Monitor). Snap apps
          provide better isolation which allows them to be upgraded to new
          stable releases during the LTS lifecycle. "




          In addition, for many, the switch from deb to snap is largely irrelevant technical detail. It would be (for many) like the switch from Upstart to SystemD. A technical thing that matters to people who care, but the vast majority it doesn't matter.



          I also commented on the further point of why things are delivered as snaps on the linked reddit thread, but am reproducing here in case the comment disappears.




          When the LTS has just come out and most of the apps in the archive are
          at similar release numbers to those in the snap store, sure, it may be
          perplexing.



          However, take into considering those people who are still running
          14.04, a 4 year old release. When 14.04 came out everything in the archive was new and fresh. Cut forward 4 years and now a lot of that
          software is old. The same will be true for 18.04 users in the year
          2022.



          While it's true some people will upgrade to the next LTS, and many
          people did upgrade to 16.04. Not everyone does. We have a significant
          chunk of users who stick on older LTS releases. What we're doing with
          snaps is planting a seed for a tree that will grow in a year or so.
          Making sure that people who install the LTS can know they will get
          updates to software long into the future, and not be 'forced' to
          upgrade to the next LTS or interim release just to get the latest
          video player, utility or productivity application.



          With 18.04, this was the first release where we pre-installed some
          snaps. This was partly to test the process, likely more apps will
          switch to being snaps in the future.



          Now, all that said, snaps aren't perfect. Sometimes they can be slow
          to start, and the theming isn't right in all cases. We're working to
          fix these issues. I would strongly recommend if you have specific
          actionable feedback for the snap team, you take it to the forum where the developers hang out. https://forum.snapcraft.io/. The
          developers don't sit on Reddit all day (I do though ;) ) and need to
          hear these issues from users. We appreciate the feedback.







          share|improve this answer




















          • Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
            – Nader Nooryani
            May 25 at 12:05












          up vote
          4
          down vote










          up vote
          4
          down vote










          Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the
          users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs
          and launchpad for changes?




          This was discussed online a lot over the last 5 months or so. Many news outlets covered it, including Phoronix and OMGUbuntu. We don't expect everyone to keep up with all the technical details of how Ubuntu is built. This is why we publish Release Notes which says




          "Some utilities have been switched to the snap format for new
          installs (Calculator, Characters, Logs, and System Monitor). Snap apps
          provide better isolation which allows them to be upgraded to new
          stable releases during the LTS lifecycle. "




          In addition, for many, the switch from deb to snap is largely irrelevant technical detail. It would be (for many) like the switch from Upstart to SystemD. A technical thing that matters to people who care, but the vast majority it doesn't matter.



          I also commented on the further point of why things are delivered as snaps on the linked reddit thread, but am reproducing here in case the comment disappears.




          When the LTS has just come out and most of the apps in the archive are
          at similar release numbers to those in the snap store, sure, it may be
          perplexing.



          However, take into considering those people who are still running
          14.04, a 4 year old release. When 14.04 came out everything in the archive was new and fresh. Cut forward 4 years and now a lot of that
          software is old. The same will be true for 18.04 users in the year
          2022.



          While it's true some people will upgrade to the next LTS, and many
          people did upgrade to 16.04. Not everyone does. We have a significant
          chunk of users who stick on older LTS releases. What we're doing with
          snaps is planting a seed for a tree that will grow in a year or so.
          Making sure that people who install the LTS can know they will get
          updates to software long into the future, and not be 'forced' to
          upgrade to the next LTS or interim release just to get the latest
          video player, utility or productivity application.



          With 18.04, this was the first release where we pre-installed some
          snaps. This was partly to test the process, likely more apps will
          switch to being snaps in the future.



          Now, all that said, snaps aren't perfect. Sometimes they can be slow
          to start, and the theming isn't right in all cases. We're working to
          fix these issues. I would strongly recommend if you have specific
          actionable feedback for the snap team, you take it to the forum where the developers hang out. https://forum.snapcraft.io/. The
          developers don't sit on Reddit all day (I do though ;) ) and need to
          hear these issues from users. We appreciate the feedback.







          share|improve this answer













          Is it just me who feels this hasn't been communicated clearly to the
          users or are the average users now expected to check developer blogs
          and launchpad for changes?




          This was discussed online a lot over the last 5 months or so. Many news outlets covered it, including Phoronix and OMGUbuntu. We don't expect everyone to keep up with all the technical details of how Ubuntu is built. This is why we publish Release Notes which says




          "Some utilities have been switched to the snap format for new
          installs (Calculator, Characters, Logs, and System Monitor). Snap apps
          provide better isolation which allows them to be upgraded to new
          stable releases during the LTS lifecycle. "




          In addition, for many, the switch from deb to snap is largely irrelevant technical detail. It would be (for many) like the switch from Upstart to SystemD. A technical thing that matters to people who care, but the vast majority it doesn't matter.



          I also commented on the further point of why things are delivered as snaps on the linked reddit thread, but am reproducing here in case the comment disappears.




          When the LTS has just come out and most of the apps in the archive are
          at similar release numbers to those in the snap store, sure, it may be
          perplexing.



          However, take into considering those people who are still running
          14.04, a 4 year old release. When 14.04 came out everything in the archive was new and fresh. Cut forward 4 years and now a lot of that
          software is old. The same will be true for 18.04 users in the year
          2022.



          While it's true some people will upgrade to the next LTS, and many
          people did upgrade to 16.04. Not everyone does. We have a significant
          chunk of users who stick on older LTS releases. What we're doing with
          snaps is planting a seed for a tree that will grow in a year or so.
          Making sure that people who install the LTS can know they will get
          updates to software long into the future, and not be 'forced' to
          upgrade to the next LTS or interim release just to get the latest
          video player, utility or productivity application.



          With 18.04, this was the first release where we pre-installed some
          snaps. This was partly to test the process, likely more apps will
          switch to being snaps in the future.



          Now, all that said, snaps aren't perfect. Sometimes they can be slow
          to start, and the theming isn't right in all cases. We're working to
          fix these issues. I would strongly recommend if you have specific
          actionable feedback for the snap team, you take it to the forum where the developers hang out. https://forum.snapcraft.io/. The
          developers don't sit on Reddit all day (I do though ;) ) and need to
          hear these issues from users. We appreciate the feedback.








          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered May 25 at 7:47









          popey

          11.6k74387




          11.6k74387











          • Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
            – Nader Nooryani
            May 25 at 12:05
















          • Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
            – Nader Nooryani
            May 25 at 12:05















          Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
          – Nader Nooryani
          May 25 at 12:05




          Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will definitely look closer at Snaps in the future. I admit that I could have done further research. I understand that Canonical want Snaps to be adopted, but I don't feel it's ready to use for preinstalled core OS apps. Maybe in the future when Snaps have matured, I will change my mind, but for now I prefer to use the default repositories for main Gnome apps such as these. Is there any problem if i remove the snaps for the installed packages and install them via apt? Will I break Ubuntu or the config for say Gnome Logs ?
          – Nader Nooryani
          May 25 at 12:05












           

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